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June 29, 2020

Vitamin E with Dr Barrie Tan

Like most things, there is often more to it than we first see. Dr. Barrie Tan helps us see how Vitamin E really works in his book, The Truth About Vitamin E.

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Allan (04:23):
Dr. Tan, welcome to 40+ Fitness.

Dr. Tan (04:25):
Hi, glad to be on.

Allan (04:28):
Now, you know, for a long time, I'm going to admit, I would read about vitamin E and it's this antioxidant that you're supposed to have. And then I'd be reading on vitamin E and it's like, well, maybe vitamin D is and all that good for you. Maybe you don't need as much as we thought you did. Maybe it isn't as good an antioxidant. Just drink red wine, and you'll be fine. You know, but in your book, The Truth About Vitamin E, you shed a lot of light on why, not only what vitamin E is, but why maybe the science, had a hard time catching on. Why vitamin E is valuable and why we may have missed it because we didn't truly understand the nature of vitamin E at the beginning.

Dr. Tan (05:14):
Yeah. I think that, you know, sometime there things that we are Hotwire in life. Just, you know, and vitamin E is one of those. The Popular vitamin E, or the one that is known for 40 50 years before is something called Tocopherol. You can see it on the cereal box and before say. Take your vitamin E Tocopherols and nothing intrinsically wrong with that. And then in the 1980s, a lot of studies were done on them. This has been, I was a young assistant professor at University of Massachusetts then, and then I was also swept in and wanted to learn more about vitamin E as an antioxidant, all these wonderful thing that it will intervene chronic conditions. So if somebody were to go online and search for vitamin E, you'll find that nothing happened to it. At the very best it didn't work. And then at worst, it may do some harm. That vitamin E could cause cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Dr. Tan (06:15):
You can look. So now the audience don't need to be alarmed. You just to feel well, why is that? So that is referring to the vitamin E Tocopherol because it's known for 50 to 70 years before, somewhere along that time, I got interested in the much, much less than known vitamin E called tocotrienol. Its a mouth full of word. Later, when you get to get a copy of the book, you can see, and then you spell out for you there. This at that time is little known, but meanwhile, that public knows vitamin E as Tocopherol. But I get fixated to study tocotrienol much less is known then. It was already known to the scientists and few scientists. So I decided to stick it on there and then study what plant material make this kind of lesser known vitamin E. And so that started my career in 1982. So it was a long time coming.

Dr. Tan (07:16):
It's no flash in the pants. So for the audience, this is just a love of my life. Wanting to pass the information on. There may be something unusual about this lesson on vitamin E. So that's the backdrop why people read and study and want to know more about Vitamin E.

Allan (07:34):
Okay. And so scientists have identified that vitamin E is an antioxidant. One of many. Tell us just a minute. What, what does an antioxidant do for us and why is it important?

Dr. Tan (07:49):
Okay. The word antioxidant before I say that vitamin E is a little bit overused, but it's a quick take for the public to understand that it protects you, that it does. Now,I'm not trying to get into the science, but just to the cartoony version of it, each of us contain 37, 38 trillion cells. That's a lot of numbers. The world population is about seven and a half billion.

Dr. Tan (08:18):
So approximately 5,000 times of population of diverse are the number of cells continue on human body. And a cell looks like a bean shaped. Its just like a cell wall, round and a bean and inside are all the constituent of the cell, like the nucleus, the mitochondria, all of these things that do good things for the body, but it had to be contained into a cell wall. And the cell wall, are fat, they are lipids, they are fat. And fat is it easiest thing to be oxidized. I'm trying to get to the word antioxidant like that. And people use the word. Antioxidant is overused. So every darn thing is an antioxidant. It is not good for the public to appreciate this. So if you asked me, I care for the things that are easiest to oxidize. If you put a stick of butter in a summer day, it'll go rancid, see.

Dr. Tan (09:14):
Even if you need to stick an uncooked piece of meat into open. When it go off after a couple of hours on a hot day, you're not smelling the protein going off in a week, you're smelling this fat going off. So then after a while, we got the gist that when you say things are oxidized, it's the fat that is oxidized. So now back to the cell wall. They are all fat. So therefore I got very interested to know. I need to know what are the antioxidants that protect the cell? Because that is the motion, not any antioxidant. About 30, 40 years ago an Austrian professor did just that. They harvested all the antioxidant on the cell wall of the fat and all of the lipid protein, the particle that float around in the blood. They also have these cell walls. So they, and then he found out that, let's say you have a hundred pieces of antioxidant in the cell wall that actually protect the lipid in the cell wall.

Dr. Tan (10:24):
More than about 90 to 95 of them. Yeah. Vitamin E molecule, the remaining five to no more than 10 are other antioxidant. There are thousands of them. So that gave me a big clue that most of the important antioxidants are protective fat. They look like vitamin E and vitamin E, now I'm reducing it down to the funnel now. Of the vitamin E we just discussed it, two groups tocopherol and tocotrienol. The difference of tocopherols. They're both antioxidant. They both catch the bad guy. You know, the difference is a tocotrienol, because the tail is a little bit shorter. It cooks, it anchors into the lipid membrane. If it goes around the cell like that. A Tocopherol goes around the cell slower figure out like five miles an hour like that a tocotrienol goes around at 50 to a hundred miles per hour.

Dr. Tan (11:30):
In other words, it brings up oxygen here to under oxidize the fat, because it spins around 50 times faster, it captures the oxygen and then annuls it. So you want oxidize the fat. Those things have published scientifically that's it. So therefore, often 90, 95% of the antioxidant vitamin E, I am now segue to the tocotrienol, because at 50 times more potent. So therefore now to the public inflammation, if somebody need to protect themself of antioxidant, first think of them protecting the fat. And the fat would be your cell wall. And the best way to protect the antioxidant should be a tocotrienol, because at 50 times more potent. Now I have a hard challenge to communicate this to the public. There's a public, mostly about tocopherol not tocotrienol. So that's, I hope that explained somewhat on that.

Allan (12:35):
It does. It does. So I think you know, we know when we start talking about the B vitamins, you know, there's B6, B12, B2 and they've got their own little names just to make it more complicated, but we tend to stick to those numbers, you know, B1, B2, B6, B12 the E vitamins also kind of have their own types as well. And there are eight of them. Do you mind going through the eight and kind of comparing and contrasting those for us.

Dr. Tan (13:04):
Since you brought up the B vitamin, the B vitamins are very complex. Where the complexity of the B vitamin is reduced to simplistic service. All B vitamin have two things. I know I'm digressing, but I hope this is useful information to your listener. The B vitamins are all water soluble. So it's not really something to use in your body, but they're all water soluble and a B vitamin chemically they're totally different. And one last thing on a, B vitamin, they all have to do with growth factor. It had to help a young and chick, a young animal to grow. So we, and then they become a B vitamin because it can help, but chemically, they are very diverse. However, in the E vitamin, sometime people call it E vitamins. They're only, they're very similar molecules. They are just tocopherol where the tail is longer, anchors less deep, and move around the cell wall slower, and tocotrienol shorter tail and it goes around the cell wall faster. Just two.

Dr. Tan (14:08):
Each one of them have four numbers on them. It's not called one, two, three, four. You have the Greek letter, alpha beta, Delta, and gamma tocopherols, alpha beta Delta, and gamma tocotrienol. If one were to do a Google search, you will find more than 90% of the research that shows vitamin E to actually work today are only two of the eight possibilities. And the two of them are Delta tocotrienol and gamma tocotrienol everything else pale, including all the Tocopherols and all the tocotrienol, except these two. Now, to share with you my excitement in the discovery from annato which is growing all over in South America, it does not grow on Argentina and Chile where you see great country growing is too cold.

Dr. Tan (15:10):
So anything from Argentina and Chile coming up North all the way to Mexico, you see this, the Spanish people call this achote, the Americans called it annato, and the British have nicknamed it, the lipstick plant because it's intense red color like that. So now we, I discovered this about 22, 23 years ago when I was in Ecuador and Peru. And I found out that this red color is intensely oxidizable. So I was surmising that there's got to be something that protect the color of going back quickly. I didn't know what it was. I thought it was a polyphenol. And surprising to me is a vitamin E molecule. And even more surprising to me, it only contained tocotrienol with no tocopherol. And most surprising to me, it only contained Delta tocotrienol and gamma tocotrienol the two of the eight that I told you that is most potent.

Dr. Tan (16:12):
So the plant know what they are doing. And I'm just fortunate to be there, spiritually to discover it. They figured it out to the evolution of time, you know, like that. So now when I discovered that this plan contained the two most potent antioxidant to protect lipid, then I said, I think I stumbled into this. And that was 22, 23 years ago. So I spent the last 20 years doing just about nothing else, but figuring out how can I show this that would help first in animal studies and then later in clinical studies that is really useful to people. That's what I've been spending most of my life.

Allan (16:58):
Okay.

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Allan (17:57):
Now, I think people can relate to the word rancid. The thought that our cell walls are getting rancid because of an oxygen molecule. One of the ways I've heard it said before, it's a little easier to understand basically the same thing as rust. Rust is an oxidation of a metal. And I think you can think that's probably good, but there's some real health benefits that we can get from an antioxidant like tocotrienol.

Dr. Tan (18:23):
Yeah. That's it. And tocotrienol now when people show picture that rubbed something on a cut apple, so to the browning will go slower. That would be an example of an oxidation that is not lipid because there's no fat in Apple. So if you put in vitamin C the vitamin C, which is ascorbic acid, you just drop a little bit on it, then it just doesn't turn Brown. Usually mothers or my wife would do this even to keep apple fresh. This is a simple way to do it. You'll put acidic acid, vinegar. That's a different process. The vinegar is a knocking off the enzyme. So the enzyme would not cause browning effect. So it's not working as an antitoxic, but it does the same job. But vitamin C would be, if you put tocotrienol on an apple, it doesn't work because it's not a lipid, a cell wall like that.

Dr. Tan (19:20):
Under rusting it is a direct oxidation on the iron. And iron from iron oxide C and then they took an oxidation. They'll all oxidation. So you go right. Those are ideas of oxidation, how easily our body can get oxidized. Because in air is about 20 to 22% oxygen. So plenty of oxygen in the air. So you can oxidize thing, but lipid. Each human body holds about 20 to 25% of lipid. That needs to be protected. And it's not like we don't need oxygen and excluded without oxygen. We die. You know, you can see this ventilator thing on a COVID thing is very clear. They need to breathe. Otherwise we died. And now with the news, let me breathe, you know, like that, is just that we need oxygen, but as we need oxygen. There are one in a thousand oxygen we reason is going to turn rogue. That rogue oxygen will oxidize your fat.

Dr. Tan (20:27):
The other 99.9% oxygen is for exchanging the carbon dioxide. All good like that. So the tocotrienol is there like a police. To capture the one in 1000 things gone bad. Otherwise there'll be a good, so that is usually fat related right? On the fat on the cell wall. And that's where tocotrienol play the best role in protecting the fat.

Allan (20:52):
Okay. And there's some definite health benefits that we can, I mean, like real health benefits, like cancer, dementia, heart disease, things like that. That this relates to.

Allan (21:04):
yeah, And on those we've done first, we did probably 10 years or more of animal study. So we're pretty confident in this area is worth studying before we put our resources against clinical study with human. So one of the earliest study we did on the cardiovascular benefit, people would have high lipids are no good meaning, high cholesterol, high triglyceride, you know, people, diabetes have high triglycerides.

Dr. Tan (21:33):
People have heart disease have high cholesterol, so we studied it. When we did. We found that in the lipid, the cholesterol typically drop about 15% and the triglyceride drop about 20%. That's good news, enough for me because I'm not on medication. I also asked that researcher that sometimes people have heart disease also caused by inflammation, distress to their body. So they study something called C reactive protein, a measurement of inflammation. And that also dropped typically about 30 to 40%. So we got that done at University of Missouri, probably about 10 years ago. Then we also study directly on inflammation, not no cardiovascular disease. And we found that C reactive protein continues to drop. So we're good with that. It helped people to lower the inflammation, the stress in your life that become biological. Usually distress is a physical one, but it translate to biological in their body.

Dr. Tan (22:38):
And it does no good to the body. And we noticed that it quenched inflammation in your body. So that part is good. Then we studied bone in postmenopausal. Women say 55 years old. We did this study in Texas. So in bone bone is organic. The growing of the bone cell is called osteoblasts, the growing cell. And the cell, the breakdown is called ostioclass. These two are in perfect balance in life. There's no such thing as just grow. And then you don't have to because the bone turn over once every 24 months like that. But as we get into menopause, the estrogen drop. Either way, Estrogen is an antioxidant. So when an estrogen drop, this is, let's say, this is the growing bone, the growing bone start to drop and to break down bone, start to increase why the breakdown increase and the growing drop. So on average, the bone is beginning to sink.

Dr. Tan (23:40):
So it's a balance on it when we gave them the vitamin E or, you know, the growing of the bone start to increase and ostioclass, that breakdown of the bone, rather than you go up is suppressed. So in other words it make the mineralization and breakdown of the bone from 55 to 65 years old dropping precipitously like that. It dropped like this over time. In other words, it cannot stop it, but it resists the bone loss. So we are very happy that that study was done and that they take about 300 milligram or so. I forgot to say in the earlier cardiovascular study, it was 200 to 500 milligrams. I'll summarize a little later. There was the second study. And the third study, I'll leave the cancer be last, the third study is fatty liver because the American diet is increasingly having more fat.

Dr. Tan (24:44):
So there's a silent disease in make the liver fatty, not a good thing. Who would have guessed 30 years ago. And people have fatty liver are people that consume too much alcohol. So to alcohol not able to be processed in the liver adequately. And the liver becomes very fatty and it causes cirrhosis. Today we see example of cirrhotic liver to a person that is non alcohol drinker. And that condition was first identified by Mayo clinic in the 1980s is called. It actually is an awkwardly long phrase is NAFLD, for non alcohol fatty liver disease. So if you want to go, go to read up, just put non alcoholic fatty liver disease, NAFLD. It was first identified in Mayo clinic in Minneapolis, in the 1980 like that. And that is simply caused by, as the phrase said, non-alcohol related and due to fatty acid, we decided to study that silent group because they had no pain, no exempt, no anything.

Dr. Tan (25:59):
Unless you do a blood test show, blood enzyme of liver, it gets stressed up like that. So we did that. We did a three month study and a six months study. So now we are, so under a three and six months study, we found that surprising to us, not intended for surprising to us that the people lost 10 pounds in three months, not as dramatic as you're exercising that you told on your story, but still it is something exciting. They did not do exercise like that. So it somehow is able to work with the body to quench the inflammation. And in six months they lost 16 pounds. So it is the time dependent like that. We, we now decided so convinced by the study, we're doing a 12 month study. We don't know the weight loss. Remember we did not design this study for weight loss.

Dr. Tan (26:54):
We actually to see, so to bring back the body back in proper shelter and therefore it beginning to work properly, the C reactive protein dropped significantly. I'm thrilled about that. They took 600 milligram like that. So in the six, in the 12 month study, we asked them to increase exercise and improve their food habits, to not, not continue to eat very high, fat food, which costs their liver damage to begin with. So that's it. The last one, probably our most dramatic study of them all with a cancer study. These cancer studies were done in Denmark. It's still ongoing and we're doing five different cancers. And the one that is published is ovarian cancer. And actually five cancer, actually six of them total, but some of them are duplicating more than the same cancer, but the four different kinds of cancer on the six studies of ovarian cancer that's published.

Dr. Tan (27:57):
And the others three, because it's four different cancers. A lung, breast, and colon cancer. And those are big types of cancer. Chronic, for sure. If you go to the state of Florida, a huge number of the elderly population have colon cancer. And of course, if they are a smoker which is not a good thing to begin with, they also exposed himself to lung cancer, much higher risks. But this ovarian cancer thing is probably related to the menopausal time is related to endometrial problems like that. But on ovarian cancer, the results publish. We started this study with stage four cancer patient. Stage four, meaning that they can say have gone everywhere. The options are not good. The doctors can not do anything, that group of people. So they have standard care that take medication that make them really sick. But if they know that it's even worse.

Dr. Tan (28:58):
So most of them after six months they are no longer living. And then the other group is taking the standard of care with the vitamin E tocotrienol. After six to six months, half of them still living. And even after 12 months continue to be after 24 months, 25% still living. I am talking about a nutritional supplement. This is nothing short of a miracle. You know, if it's a drug, it would be all over Wall Street Journal, but it isn't. So we published this, but we have great confidence. So we're down to wait for the clinical trial, for the breast, lung, and colon cancer to come out, hopefully will yield the exciting news. And these patient takes 900 milligrams, higher dose because they are at the end stage. And once we are successful with the stage four, then we will do the stage three, two, and one, you follow?

Dr. Tan (30:03):
So we did that because with stage four, you have nothing to lose. So we begin with that and we'll graduate to the one. So just so for the audience, you know, we don't have all the answers now we are providing. You know, research is like that. Easy to ask question, but results are not easy to come by. But I would take tocotrienol for the prevention of cancer. Because nobody had dodged the bullet, you know. Your DNA could go act out and then you have cancer causing. So not everything is dietary, not so days that genetic component also. So if I can ward it away by taking 300 milligrams, why not? It's a very inexpensive insurance.

Allan (30:48):
It definitely is.

Dr. Tan (30:49):
Those are the studies.

Allan (30:51):
Now in a lot of cases when you're taking a mineral, you're taking a vitamin, they'll talk about how it has a symbiotic relationship with something else. And then other times you take something and it could actually harms you from getting what you need out of something else. So taking it is not in your best interest. And so you talked in the book about when you supplement or your food stuff is pretty high in tocopherols, that that can actually be, bad for getting the tocotrienol to work the way you need. I'm going to say it wrong, right?

Dr. Tan (31:32):
No, I understand your question. You are referring to, is there anything that would be antagonistic or interfer.

Allan (31:41):
Because yeah, more of a good thing is not always a good thing.

Dr. Tan (31:44):
That is correct. I think there, let me take one step back before the show you had asked me about, if you can get something from food, let's get it from food. So I should address that. In a dietary manner in which is eating from food. We typically can get about 10 to 12 milligrams of tocopherol. If you just eat healthy food with vegetable like that, you'll get mostly tocopherol you can get from oil, vegetable oil. If you add them up and USDA have these kind of numbers, we were on a Western diet, probably 10 to 12 milligram of tocopherol. That 10 to 12 milligram of tocopherol is ducky. No problem with that. It's good. If you take supplement for tocopherol, It's a different story. People take 400 IU, 600, 1000 IU, approximate to 400, 600 to 1000 milligrams. That is not, you cannot get that from diet. You have to get it from a supplement and tocotrienol, if you eat a Western diet, typically you have about two milligram of tocotrienol, and from the citation I mentioned on this study, there are approximately about 200 to 600 milligram.

Dr. Tan (33:05):
So if you take it from food, 200 milligrams, you need approximately a hundred times more. So therefore it's not possible to get in now. So tocotrienol from the diet. So just to set the stage for that. So now on the interference and the antagonistic component, if a person takes supplemental vitamin E tocopherol then the supplemental vitamin E tocopherol would interfere with the function of tocotrienol. If you want to see the benefit of tocotrienol. So for me, because tococpherol and tocotrienol protect the cell wall equally. I mean, to protect the cell wall, but not equally, I meant, but tocotrienol protects it 50 times better. I have stopped taking tocopherol more than 20 years. If I get tocopherol from diet, which I mentioned is 10, 12 milligram of data is fine. That will not interfere.

Dr. Tan (34:08):
It's too small to interfere because I take 300 milligrams, 300 milligrams of tocotrienol 10 milligram of tocopherol no interference. But if I take 300 milligrams of tocotrienol, then I take 300 milligrams of supplement tocopherol. I have a problem because basically I, my leg, my right leg is on the gas pedal. And my left leg is on the brake petal. It's like this, but if I dietarily have 10 milligram to cough, my, my gas pedal right leg is on nothing on the left leg. So you would not interfere. So I hope I help to clarify that.

Allan (34:54):
You did, you did. We want our foot on the brake, not pushing it, and our gas peddle pushing it and that's gonna move us forward. Alright. I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest, and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?

Dr. Tan (35:12):
That, you know, I don't get asked that kind of question a lot, but I liked the way you, you raised that question. I thought about it a little bit. So thank you for doing it at different interview, at different slang on things. Some, some are very critically scientific, some which is a larger audience and some is holistic. I see these questions that you have, you asked healthiest, and I translate in my mind as wellness. You mentioned fitness, I translate in my mind as exercise. And then you use the word happiness. Happiness sometime can be elusive, you know, by translate in my mind, happiness as spiritual, you know, I'm in my sixties, you have things that have happiness come but they're fleeting. After a while it flies away, that's not a character of happiness. So I thought of happiness as spiritual something is intrinsic within me like that. So I think I now describe this three thing. It's not a strategy, you know, not so intentional like that.

Dr. Tan (36:20):
I think of this three as something I got into. So maybe learning to ally. So not so intentional. The first one is I just described it in my way. The first one is I moved from deleterious. People know the word, things, bad things, deleterious to nutritional, you know, if it's in life and it would be toxic to nontoxic, I, I, that the phrase is loaded somewhat, but in your, in my study in science is deleterious to a nutritional. Why do I use the word deleterious? When I was a young assistant professor, I got a lot of grant from the EPA, the environmental protection agency. So I just, I studied fish Fish of cancer all over their face, you know, it's terrible, you know, and then I study oil spill and then they have pesticide in the thing. So any good news, I can't bare bad news. I appreciate that.

Dr. Tan (37:21):
But then I said, wow, this is such a downer. But of course, if people tell me, Barrie, you better not eat that, that have a lot of lead, but man, thank you very much for telling me, you know, because I don't want you to stop. Right. So, but then I said, I don't want to spend my time bearing bad news all the time. So I don't want to say deleterious thing. I greatly appreciate people who do that and inform me about that, but I started my career and then I move on to nutritional thing. I wanted to know what makes me healthy. So then moved from that. So I went from that position then I began to be very concentrated in my scientific affairs, in wellness and healthy thing. So now my, all my scientific thinking is like that. And I think that it contributes much to my personal health.

Dr. Tan (38:11):
I have genetic hypercholesterolemia like that. So I have to watch what I eat. You know, you know, I can love, I can do many things, but a non beating heart cannot work. A non-beaing heart cannot love. So I got to take care of a few things, so I won't get into problem, you know? So that part talks about your wellness healthier. The second part is I move from moral to spiritual. It's touching on your happy component part. In early on in my life because of my parents, which I'm very grateful. They teach me that Barrie, you want to live life doing the right thing. People say like that that's important. So that galvanized me to have rules right, and wrong. Still there like that, but I move away from that. I didn't want it to be just black and white. And then I moved from moral to spiritual.

Dr. Tan (39:10):
Here I am more aware. My wife teaches me more on this than I am naturally like this, you know, hi, I egocentric doesn't help, you know, like that, but you know, I'm a homosapien, you know, I can't think away from that kind of thing, but it helped the spiritual part help me to be aware and helped me off my being. So in helping me to be aware of my being, I actually am able to focus on things that are non-matter. The first one is matter. You would take this, you don't take this. And this one is non-matter. It helps me. So spiritual being helps me and this kind of component helped me to be happy. Hard to have things that are material, making me happy. It did a little bit and then it just is fleeting, you know? Great.

Dr. Tan (40:04):
And they don't last, you know, so, and so I touched a happy component. The third one, I did not put these contextualized, but they actually fit your three things. The third one has to do with the exercise component. Today, with the advent of Google and computer, I'm tempted to sit. But of course, I started my scientific career before the advent of computers and before Google, but I also sit. Because I'll go to the library to get journal article. And then I said, all day long to read, then I said, wow, this is not good. So then now I walking. So in the last two years in particular, I should have done earlier, not a weekend warrior run like mad. I don't have that in me, but I need to be cardiovascular. If you just walk enough for 20 minutes, you'll heart will increase pulse rate.

Dr. Tan (41:05):
And my reading would increase. I want at least that I want my blood to be circulating. Of course, if I can run like the jock fantastic. But I can't, you know, my doctor said, Barrie you're in your 60s. You cannot get your heartbeat of 140. That's dangerous. Your heart will collapse. You know, you're not in your twenties. You can do that. So I watched that he, my doctor make me run on a treadmill. So when I get my heartbeat of 140, is that very, I can see not rhythm mixing happening to your heart. So you gotta make sure that you can overdo this because you're not in your twenties, you know, like that. So I always want my height to be cardiovascular and cardiovascular is not difficult to do. I just walk 20 minutes. My height will be cardiovascular like that. So I ended up right now, I'm trying to meet the challenge of resistance exercise.

Dr. Tan (41:57):
I would like to do that because they'll help me a strong, good bones built a little bit better muscle. I know that when you lost weight, you said that a portion of your weight gain is your muscle mass. I would like to do that. So I'm working on that.

Allan (42:11):
So Dr. Tan, when we get off this call, let's talk.

Dr. Tan (42:16):
Okay. So those are my three things, you know, so sorry it took a little long winded to answer that, but I'm with you on that how you address this to your audience.

Allan (42:29):
Okay. Great. Thank you. So Dr. Tan, thank you for being on 40 plus fitness. If someone wanted to learn more about, you learn more about your book, The Truth About Vitamin E and your product Delta gold, where would you like for me to send them?

Dr. Tan (42:44):
Okay. First under book, it was a labor of love. So you can get a download free copy of the book. You go on the website, my name Barrie, is B A R R I E. It is a British style of saying Barry. Barrietan.com. They would go on it. And then, because you come to this, to this show, so you can say 40 fitness and you'd be able to download a free copy. If the audience like to get the autograph hand copy you send me an email through the website, and then we'll be happy to send you a copy. Otherwise you can download it fast. So you can read it yourself as to buying the supplement. If you type online, just make sure that the tocotrienol have to work annatto. A N N A T T O two ends and two T are not tocotrienol then that's tocotrienol you're want. Not from any other sources, then you will get it. If you want specific names of company to do, to buy it from, you can buy it from Amazon, the two or three companies that I recommend you all come from our factory, like that would be Designs For Health. Designs, Plural designs for health. Nutricology, synthesizing the word, nutrition and pharmacology Nutricology they have it too. And then AC Grace capital a capital C grace as in grace to our life AC grace. So these three companies have them. And if you still have difficulty sending us an email, we will direct you. How to get, I hope to answer your questions.

Allan (44:41):
You can go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/440 and I'll have all the links there. Dr. Tan, thank you for being a part of 40+ Fitness.

Dr. Tan (44:51):
And thank you and thanks for the audience for so patiently. Hopefully you find something useful to your application, to your health. Thank you. Have a wonderful day.


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