On episode 660 of the 40+ Fitness Podcast, we meet Barbara and Michael Grossman and discuss their book, Ageless Love: The Sexy Science of Falling in Love Forever.
Episode Notes
Transcript provided by CastMagic.io.
Coach Allan [00:01:10]: Hey, Ras. How you doing?
Rachel [00:01:25]: Good, Allan. How are you today?
Coach Allan [00:01:27]: I'm doing alright. It's it's been a busy, busy month. Mhmm. Yeah. I did the, I did the workshop, and that that's gone very, very well. I'm really excited about the number of people that came through the workshop and the results, what we're doing. It's it's been really cool. And then, of course, I I opened up and and launched my my new training program, and that's going well.
Coach Allan [00:01:50]: And so I'm just I'm just excited that, you know, I'm I'm done. But, you know, as a result, right now, I'm not taking any more clients for a while, and I'll Mhmm. Work into the end of the year and just get these folks the best results I possibly can. Sorry if you missed it, but we've been talking about it. Mhmm. But, yeah, it's it's it's good. It's all good. How are things up there?
Rachel [00:02:12]: Good. Enjoying the last little bits of summer here. Mike and I took our kayaks out over the weekend. So we had a different kind of working out over the weekend. My arms are a little sore from paddling, but it was a fun fun outing.
Coach Allan [00:02:25]: Use your back, not
Rachel [00:02:26]: I know. Well and now I know. You know, it's just funny. Like, it's it's like getting your sea legs. We haven't had our kayaks out in so long. I forgot how to propel. I forgot how to turn.
Rachel [00:02:38]: I forgot all the things that you do when you do something with consistency, and and this was our first outing. So I'm hoping we can get it out a couple more times before it gets too cold.
Coach Allan [00:02:48]: Or you're just treading across the top of the ice.
Rachel [00:02:51]: Yes. Exactly.
Coach Allan [00:02:54]: Alright. Well, are you ready to talk about ageless love?
Rachel [00:02:57]: Sure.
Coach Allan [00:02:59]: After 20 years of leading marriage classes for thousands of couples, our guests have created the best technology to navigate the marriage journey. Doctor Barber received her PhD in a pastoral counseling from Claremont School of Theology. She is committed to teaching skills to move couples from emotional distance and power struggle to feeling understood, appreciated, and respected using wisdom from our western cultural tradition. Her passion is to promote personal development, which is the key to success in the marriage journey. Doctor Michael has been a practitioner and a teacher of meditation for over 1,000 people over 40 years. He has led attitudinal healing classes for over 20 years, teaching how to create love, let go of resentments and fears, and how to create an experience of connection to God. He is passionate about using romantic partnership as a vehicle to move us through higher stages of inner development. He works as an anti aging physician teaching health and longevity through balanced nutrition, hormones, exercise, meditation, and healthy relationships.
Coach Allan [00:04:04]: With no further ado, here's doctor Barbara Grossman and doctor Michael Grossman. Doctors Grossman, welcome to 40 Plus Fitness.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:04:12]: Nice to be here. Pleasure.
Coach Allan [00:04:15]: So your book is called Age is Love, the sexy science of falling in love forever. Yes. And I have to say what was what was actually kind of bizarre as I went through the book, and I'm gonna dive into this a little bit later, was it's like, okay. Wait. You guys have been following me around my whole life because you you actually know how I developed as a human being in my relationships. You you laid them out in this book, and I'm like, who are these people and how they've been following me? How do they know these things? Because it was it was eerie. It was it was really eerie how close you guys were to how I reacted to things as I was getting more, I guess, more and more mature is the way I'd say it.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:01]: Yeah. How old are you?
Coach Allan [00:05:04]: I'm 58 now.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:06]:
Okay. Very nice. And and and how long have you been married?
Coach Allan [00:05:11]: This this last time, 10 years.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:14]: 10 years. Very nice.
Coach Allan [00:05:16]: And it it did start from a very different, frame of mind, a very different stage. And I and I think that's that's why it has lasting power and the others did not.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:28]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Coach Allan [00:05:30]: We make it
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:31]: when we're in our forties than when we're in our twenties.
Coach Allan [00:05:36]: Yes. Yes. It it like I said, you laid it out. So we're gonna talk about it because I was like, I just thought it was fascinating. I'm like, okay. They've been they've been following me around because nobody knows this stuff. Alright. So, like I said, I I really enjoyed the book, and and you came at it from a very different perspective than than I was looking for.
Coach Allan [00:05:59]: Okay. So when I came in, I was like, okay. It's a book about relationships. It's a book about love. And and I I fully expected, yes, we have to talk about communication because that's the cool core tool to make all this happen. But you used a reference to quantum physics and electrons in speaking about waves and particles as the way that we, even as humans, approach things. Could you could you kind of describe that and tell us how that works and what that means? Because as you started to say it, I wasn't sure. But by the time you got done explaining it, I'm like, absolutely.
Coach Allan [00:06:39]: This is how it works. So
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:06:45]: so electrons and photons behave in peculiar waves. We didn't realize that they're so different than, quote, particles. So from, looking at science from, Isaac Newton, we thought everything was little particles bouncing into each other. And and then when quantum physics, came around, all this weird stuff was going on where, what seemed to be a particle could behave like a wave depending depending upon whether someone was watching it or not, which is totally crazy. Like, oh my gosh. Is is light a wave or a particle? And and what scientists figured out, and it made no sense to them, was that it could be either depending upon who is watching it or is something watching it. If no one is watching it, it behaves like a wave. As soon as something consciously looks at it or observes it, it turns into a particle.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:07:48]: It gets localized. Now that is like an extraordinary way of understanding the world we live in, which is not the way normally we think about it. We think about everything as separate from each other, and, like, I can interact with you and bounce into you. But what we're saying with the particle wave understanding is that a a photon or electron can behave like a particle or like a wave. So it could be a wave if it's just everywhere at any time, and then it can get localized if something looks at it and localize it. So what happens in our own personal life, if we feel like everything is good, that no one is judging us and watching us and so on, we feel unlimited. We feel so connected to everything, interrelated to everything. But as soon as We're relaxed.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:08:41]: Our and we're relaxed. Right? Because we're open. As soon as our husband or wife says something specific that makes us feel like we're being observed and watched and judged and criticized, we push. We get localized, and we start feeling like, well, something is pushing on me, and I can't move anymore, and I'm being restricted. And we feel pressured, and we feel like we're restricted. We can control whether we feel constricted or not by our way of interacting with other people if we let it just go through us. Like, we become a window where everything just goes through us. Nothing gets stuck in here, which means we have to be in a state of forgiveness.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:09:30]: We have to be in a state of gratitude. And when we're in that, nothing affects us. It just goes right through us, and we change our experience.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:09:40]: And you're your best self. So the the image of a of a particle is constriction. It's defensiveness. It's reactiveness. It's it's not our best selves. And if you it's you can use the metaphor use it as a metaphor to to consciously be a wave even in the presence of criticism or in a, in a conflict. And, that's the the best, approach to having conversations with people we care about.
Coach Allan [00:10:08]: Yeah. One of the one of my takeaways and, again, I'm I'm getting a little personal here. But, yeah, I was thinking about that with regards to my relationship with my wife now, and I was thinking, okay. There are times when I get frustrated. I think you had a story of frustration, and I was like, yes. Mine was slightly different because what what happens with me is that my wife will ask me to do something while I'm doing something else. And the way my brain works, I want to finish the one thing I'm doing before I go off and start trying to do something else. And the thing she's asked me to do doesn't have to be done right now.
Coach Allan [00:10:49]: So I get frustrated. I I turn into a particle, and I realize at that point that I'm I'm angry that that she doesn't understand that I just I wanna get this done first. I wanna do that. I'll do that second because she in her head, just she wants it done, like, now. So she'll start doing it. Never and she'll say never mind. I'll just do it. And I'm like again, frustrated.
Coach Allan [00:11:14]: So it is a conversation I haven't had with my wife. She's traveling, but I just finished reading your book. So when she gets back, I am going to open that up and say, hey. You know, some things I've been thinking about when you say this, I feel this.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:11:31]: Yes.
Coach Allan [00:11:31]: And this is why I feel this. And then maybe as she opens up, she'll communicate, okay. Next time I want you to do something, I'll recognize you're doing something already because I don't sit around watching a lot of Netflix. If if I'm sitting there doing something, I'm doing something. And so just let her know. It's like, if you come in, I'm doing something. You ask me. You want something.
Coach Allan [00:11:56]: Unless it's like, please put out the house fire. If it can wait, then just recognize that that's what I'm gonna wanna do, is do it after I finish what I'm doing. And let me and let me.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:12:11]: Good. So you didn't have an upset. You made a request, negotiated it, and it resolved the stuff.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:12:16]: Well, he- Joshua Brodersen (zero
Coach Allan [00:12:17]: fifty five:fifty six): Well, it will. I'm laying out my communication plan. Yeah. Okay. You're
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:12:23]: not going to come from crankiness
Coach Allan [00:12:24]: or control? Joshua Brodersen (zero fifty five:fifty six): No. I'm going to realize that that was me reacting and not, you know, thinking it, not doing it right, not opening up and accepting it the way it's supposed to be.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:12:38]: So so we have, 2 thoughts for you. One is what we recommend in our book is always make appointments for these discussions.
Coach Allan [00:12:48]: Yeah.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:12:48]: Make an appointment when it's comfortable for each of you and say, hey, we would can can we sit and talk? I have some things to talk to you about. I need 5 or or 10 minutes. That's good time. So that and and she should do the same for you so that you make an appointment for discussion. Very important. Second thing would be, when you're listening to each other, we have a whole process that we teach couples where you listen without interrupting, which is really strange for couples. Okay? Listen without interrupting, and then when you respond, the other person responds without you interrupting. Now that doesn't necessarily lead to complete clear, what do we can do about this? How do we come? No.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:13:33]: But it starts the sharing process. So you don't wanna get into an argument.
Coach Allan [00:13:38]: Yeah.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:13:38]: So this is how you avoid the arguments through this and and and we have a whole process where we teach our couples how to, avoid arguments. That's one of our online courses, as I have said.
Coach Allan [00:13:52]: But you also you also brought this up in the book. And one of the things you said that I think was was really astute was that I'm having I'm having a series of feelings, and it's better for me to say when this happens, I feel this than it is for me to say you always do that, and it's always wrong.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:14:13]: Very, very, very good. And the other thing that we have, we have a skill set where we teach the couples to say, ouch. So that's a whole other skill set. So when you have a little ouch, it's a little it's a skill set to say ouch at the beginning when you're not really that upset. And then your partner says, oh, what what is the why is why are you saying ouch? Well and then you have a chance to say, but you do this, and I'm feeling this and feeling that. And then the partner said, well, what can I do to make it better? And then you make a specific thing. If it doesn't be done right away, then please just ask once and and and give me, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, whatever to finish what I'm doing, and then I'll complete that. And and if if it's a simple thing, that's it.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:15:07]: If it's not simple, then you gotta make an appointment for a whole sharing session. So so it's very important to catch the ouchies early, because if you wait, it builds up. Yeah. And it's bigger, and then they get
Coach Allan [00:15:22]: And it has. That that that's why it comes to mind is that it's happened several times. And every time, I get frustrated, and it's the same feelings, and it's it's never resolved.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:15:32]: Right.
Coach Allan [00:15:33]: You know, it's always, okay. I'll quit doing what I'm doing and go do this because, you know, you I feel, you know, again, I'm a particle. Alright. So now this is where the eerie part comes in is is you you took us through the psychospiritual states. There's 5 stages or states, and you walked kinda through those, you know, the innocence, the orphan, caretaker, warrior, and wise elder. And like I said, as I was reading through that, I'm like, you guys just wrote my biography, of every relationship I've ever had. Can you take us through that and describe what each of those is and and then what's necessary to kinda get to the next stage? Because there are there is a change in us that has to occur or we're not gonna be ready for that next stage. Wendy Van Wagner (zero twenty three:fifty four): Well,
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:16:23]: in terms of relationships, what's important it's important to start at stage 3, which is where people want to belong. They want to they want to make lifelong love commitments. They want to attach. And, usually, if you if you marry young, you marry usually in that stage. And, but but and so it's all about creating a home, creating a family. It's very comfortable, and it's it's all about really attachment. But very soon, you know, because in our culture, women have babies, men go forward, and they become more dynamic in the world. They become, they become, warriors, and they're out in the world, you know, making a a good life for their family, and they have to be they have to develop their strategies, their tactics, their their, they have to connect with a skill base.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:17:14]: They have a lot of things they have to do to be effective. And so you have a, you know, a a more individuated, lead in the family, usually the man. And the woman is home having babies. She's still about connection. So they're in a very, very different place than they were when they started, and and their values are somewhat different. How they see the world is different because their responsibilities are fundamentally different. And so they they need to understand that this is part of the evolution of their lives, and they have to appreciate their differences rather than fight over their differences. Eventually, women, you know, most women go back to work, and they become, they they become, you know, more independent as well.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:17:56]: That's not an easy deal either because they've got 2 very, you know, powerful people who have confidence and self esteem and have a points of view, and they, and they battle it out. And that isn't really that isn't, you know, nice for the bond and the family life and and the emotional connection. So it, it's important to understand these stages so that we don't take them so personally, that we understand we have different points of view and that, and that we soften up a little bit and, appreciate that, you know, both usually in a good argument, both points of view have validity. And, you know, Ben, it's easier when you get to our age. You know, we're we've raised our children. We have grandchildren, and it's a very, very sweet time. But those are very, very tough stages. And if you don't understand them, it's very easy to come to to conclusions that are very harsh for the for the partnership and for the family life.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:18:51]: And, you know, my purpose in talking about this is that couples understand that it's a you know, that your your relationship pulls you through these, these stages and helps you grow. Without this stimulus, you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't develop your heart. You wouldn't develop your mind. You wouldn't be forced to integrate the the mind and the heart. It's the it's the best program for self development that that, has ever been designed. You can't get better therapy than having a partner because your partner will tell you everything you you probably didn't wanna know, that is your project to work on yourself. And, we want we want people to know this so that they understand the the project, that it's it's about learning together, growing together. And we'd we'd like to see couples, you know, really use their relationship for the good of everyone in the family and not, you know, just and not separate and divorce without, you know, deep reflection.
Coach Allan [00:19:47]: Yeah. So I that was it. I I got into my career, and I felt like I I kinda developed beyond. And I even though I encouraged her to do things, she was the caretaker. She was the you know, to at home. And, yeah, I we were in totally different stages of life, and we weren't communicating. And that's you know, that was the end. You know? We weren't mature enough.
Coach Allan [00:20:13]: If we didn't go get help, it was what it was. Time didn't heal that, and it wouldn't have healed it. But So from
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:20:20]: a relationship point of view, the woman will see her her man as, you know, arrogant and pushy, and the man will experience his wife as as boring and, you know, you know, a resistant. And, it's it's it's an unfair interpretation even though there's truth in it. But, you know, if you understand it's a stage, you understand that, really, it's important to be a caretaker. It's important to be out in the world. This is what you do for the for the family and that you can stretch and grow towards each other. So you understand, you know, how what's you know, what the big gap in between. And, eventually, women get, you know, get interested in their own development and they, progress. And so there's a really nice stage ahead.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:21:04]: But getting through that stage Doctor.
Coach Allan [00:21:06]: Andrew Roark If you're still together, yes.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:21:09]: Doctor. Andrew Roark And so what I can add is that the development of the hot is something that men get later. So women develop their hot, having babies, naturally being a woman, you're into nurturing. But the ability to have the mind controlling the hot comes a little later for women. And that's what they learn in relationship as they grow and mature. For men, it usually goes the other way. They get into their mind really early, their into their career and to having their mind and their heart is just controlled by their mind. But then they have to when they are growing and developing, they have to learn to develop their heart.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:21:56]: So what does that mean? That means women, it's important for a man to learn to share his feelings. It's important that he's connected to
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:22:02]: his feelings, and it's important that his woman knows what his feelings are. And it's also important on the other side for a woman to control her anger. It's not nice, and anger isn't a primary feeling anyway. Secondary. What's underneath anger is hurt and fear. And, you know, most people don't know that. And so they you know, every feelings get dramatized, and that's a bad recipe for a relationship.
Coach Allan [00:22:28]: I agree. Now another area I wanted to go into, and, if you have small children, you might not want them to hear this part, so hit pause and listen to something else if you got the kids around. But I did wanna talk about this because I think this is you know, I think we all we all kinda understand, yeah, the emotional side of all of this, the, you know, the mind and communication and obviously the heart. But we we we have well, that's where most of the relationship piece comes until we start getting older, and then it's sometimes it's the physical stuff. So it's the intimacy. It's, you know, like, maybe guys are struggling with, ED. Women get into menopause, and they start dealing with symptoms like vaginal dryness. And those can both affect the intimacy from a physical perspective that we're having.
Coach Allan [00:23:22]: So I'd like to talk a little bit about your perspectives on managing those because they're they're very sensitive topics to individuals when they're going through it. But what recommendations would you have for someone?
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:23:34]: Well, there are 2 different basic issues we have to look at. So as a as a physician who who deals with these things a lot, there are 2 different categories. 1 is the emotional category, and the other is the physiological category. So so the physiological category is very different from men and women. For women, it's pretty quick when they go into menopause, Anywhere from the age of 45 to 50 something, women are gonna go through menopause where they are not menstruating like they used to, get hot flashes, vaginal dryness, mood swings, not sleeping well, feeling tired, losing libido, and it's not psychological. It's physiological. That can have a great effect on the relationship when that when a woman goes through that, and the way to treat that is on the physiological level. So they come to see me, I put them on bio identical hormones, natural hormone replacement.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:24:36]: So chapter 2 in the book, not chapter 2, but section 2 is all about the body. And we talk about what should we do for women. You take bio identical hormones, you live longer and healthier than if you do nothing. You don't wanna use the synthetic hormones. And there's all kinds of variations of things to do, but it's dramatic. It it allows women to live a a vital, energetic, enthusiastic life, sexually, mentally, emotionally, creatively, their whole life. So Barbara and I, we're 473. We do ballroom dancing.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:25:12]: We compete around the country. It's real intense, and we love it. But we couldn't do it without these natural, wild, dark hormones. Men, it's a little different. When men go into their fifties, they they lose a lot of their hormones, but it's just slow. Every 10 years, it goes down and down and down. By the time they're 60 or 70, it's like, woah, it's gone. And they feel like an old man.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:25:37]: And they lose their energy. They lose their enthusiasm. They lose libido. They don't have any muscle stamina or endurance. It's all reversible, and it's dramatic. But the downside is very slow. So you feel less good when you're 40, less good when you're 50, less good when you're 60, but there's nothing dramatic. It's slow.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:26:00]: But it's dramatic when we replace the male hormone, testosterone with some other things to support them, and it's dramatic. It just changes their life. So that's the physiological thing. Erection functioning for men, 50% of men when they're 50 have that as a problem. 70% of men when they're 70, and it just keeps going up. It's reversible. The physiological problem for men is reversible. There are many different causes for it.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:26:30]: I do a lot of vibrational acoustic wave therapy, gains wave. I do a lot of injection stem cells and platelets and exosomes, and it's dramatic. It works only 85 to 90% of the time. No side effects, and it's great. Men love it. It changes their ability to have that intimate relationship that beats so much. In in a marriage, you live longer and healthier if you have sex twice a more a week than if you have it twice a month. So it's very important.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:27:02]: It's not just feel good. It's important to create that all those emotional changes in your hormones that affect your physiology. It really makes you live longer and healthier. So that's for men, and women have issues that can occur as they get older, and and we can do the same kinds of treatment that we do for men on women, and it's dramatically helpful for them. Emotional issues, then you gotta work with doctor Barber to see what's going on emotionally. You have to have the the feeling of of love and intimacy, emotional intimacy with your partner. And and I would say 20 to 30% of the time, it's emotional. 70 to 80% of the time, it's physiological.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:27:48]: So that's the big picture.
Coach Allan [00:27:50]: Okay. Now you didn't use these words in the book, but this was just as I was reading through it, this was what, what kinda got into my head. It was about how, I think, spiritually, a lot of times, we we feel like victims. And and I hear it I hear it a lot a lot, reading different things and listening to different things. Is it there's just there just seems to be this new culture of victimhood that's out there. And I think if we feel like we're a victim, it's it's really hard to solve any problems. And so I you know, like I said, the words I wrote down as I was reading was abandoned victimhood. But it was really as I was going through the spiritual section of the book and just how we relate to our situation in the world.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:28:45]: I I I I love your your analysis and perspective. So in the 3rd section of book on, spirituality, we talk about what is required of every human being to live a fulfilling life is you have to forgive everybody who's ever hurt you. That's a big thing to
Coach Allan [00:29:10]: do. Including yourself. Well,
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:29:14]: yeah. Yeah. That's true. And and to go into the forgiveness thing, we have an exercise in our book which can help people to take one example of it to kind of go through it. It's very fulfilling. We also have, a thing where you, a process with where you have your spouse work with you to help you to heal those wounds from the past. And, the big picture that people have to see with forgiveness is that, you have to see that if you think that you're gonna hurt someone else by not forgiving them, and I'll show them, and I'll get them back, and whatever, you have to see the big picture. That always hurts you more than it hurts them.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:30:04]: Yeah. And and it hurts you psychologically, it hurts you physiologically. Your health and longevity are tied into forgiveness. That's part of living wrong. To to feel emotions of compassion is so critical for your own longevity. You wanna say something? Yeah.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:30:24]: Can I add that, most of us don't know the wounds that we harbor until we're married and we're, intimate with our partner emotionally, physically, and try to live a family life together? We recreate family life, and we we experience. We we, we experience the wounds of our childhood. And, it often looks like our partner is the bad person, but we're really so there's a there's a way in which the intimacy of our partnership, brings to the surface all of the wounds of our childhood. It's the most remarkable psychotherapy there is because you you get in touch with everything that is just not in that isn't resolved and centered and squared with you. All of your distortions of reality, come up for, review. And you have a chance to, you know, realize, you know, from an adult point of view what was going on and to appreciate, your parents, even and and forgive them for those those times that were very difficult. And so, you know, we believe that partnership is part of the journey of, you know, human life to, you know, full expression and satisfaction, creativity.
Coach Allan [00:31:35]: Yeah. And I like the idea of you bringing your partner into this because that that shared experience, it it's just gonna deepen the relationship and the intimacy and the openness that you have with them because you'll probably be sharing things that you haven't shared with anybody else.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:31:54]: Correct. Absolutely right. It's so critical. So for for Barbara and I, my sensitivities as a child was that my mother would criticize everybody, including me. And she was the big boss general, and and she was the only one allowed to have feelings. So when something happens that make me feel criticized, I fall apart. I'm strong at just so many ways, but Barbara has learned that I am very sensitive to criticism. And she may say or do something that hits that, and then I I can say, oh, gee.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:32:31]: That really hurts. She says, oh, I'm so sorry to to do that. That is something my mother would never do. Right? But Barbara, so apologize for just a little tone of voice or a little something. You know? And then that that creates the love where she heals my past hurts. And Barbara's hurts are her natural father left and never came back when she was 2. Abandonment drives her crazy. If she thinks I might run off or not come home on time or something happens and I'm not there, then she falls on.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:33:05]: And instead of me feeling like she's criticizing me and and trying to upset me, I recognize, oh, that's her sensitivity. Okay. I'm so sorry I forgot to call you. Oh, and then she then she could feel better about it. So each of us can heal each other, and that is critical. And then you go on and on where you do ultimately have to forgive everybody for everything that ever happened to you. And then God's love comes into your experience, and you feel open to everything around you, and your heart expands. And you move through those layers that you talked about, the growing layers, after the warrior phase, you get into the into the wise elder phase, and there's other phases above there.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:33:50]: But it all requires you gotta go through all this stuff. It's quite a spiritual process. That relationship pushes you through. Doctor.
Coach Allan [00:33:59]: Whitfield (zero forty five:fifty four): Well, I'm not going to call myself a wise elder yet, but I'm working on it. Okay? Doctor. Whitfield (zero forty five:fifty
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:34:05]: four): It's a process, Josh. But what happens is your one of your the injuries of one of your childhoods intertwines with the other one. So if if I feel, you know, abandoned and not important to Michael and I start criticizing him, we've reactivated both of our histories in the same moment.
Coach Allan [00:34:25]: Yeah. And
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:34:25]: so it takes, you know, it takes, a lot of reflection and and forgiveness to unwrap that and and lay it out and and resolve it. And if you don't do that because you're not just hurt from this moment, you're hurt from your whole history, It gets so intense for some couples. I think that accounts for, a lot of the divorces we see because, fundamentally, our our partnership is a psychological relationship.
Coach Allan [00:34:52]: Yes. Okay. So doctor Barbara, I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest, and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:35:04]: Well, I think you need to, you need to have a form of exercise. You need to eat healthy. You need to know your body, your your personal physiology, and eat well for your for the kind of body you have. You need to, stay connected. That means, you know, a soulful, deep conversation on a regular basis and regular sex.
Coach Allan [00:35:26]: Alright. So, now doctor Michael, same for you. I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest, and happiest you can be. What are 3 strategies or tactics to get and stay well?
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:35:39]: So what I would add to doctor Barber is that, one, I would, add that the the way to stay emotionally connected to your partner is to work at the skills you need to foster that. And you're gonna find those skills in the courses that we we teach online, in our books. You need to make that an important part of your life that you've gotta say, yes. This is just as important as eating. The most important factor in longevity after the age of 50 is the quality of personal relationships. You need to work on that. You're not born having the skills for personal relationships. You've gotta learn them.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:36:25]: We've had many mentors, and we love mentoring other people. Online courses that aren't video or, in person, Zoom courses. Second thing is meditation is a critical factor in one of the things you need to do to have good longevity and to be healthy. You have to calm down the stress response, which is so overwhelming in my life. And I teach med meditation classes twice a week online, and and then they can go to doctor michaelmeditation.com. There's no cost. So important. The third thing that is is real critical is to have a doctor who's gonna look at your overall well-being.
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:37:14]: Unfortunately, most doctors are government doctors, and they wanna get you in and out 5 minutes and give you a pill and leave them alone. Okay? Because they have a lot of other patients to see. You need a doctor like myself who's gonna look at your overall well-being, look at all the different tests on your are you prediabetic? Are you clogging your arteries? Are are are you, having issues with inflammation, arthritis? And and they have to look at the big picture, and and this is gonna be your guide. Everyone needs to have a a doctor guide who's into antiaging medicine to see the big picture. Those would be the things I would suggest.
Coach Allan [00:37:55]: Thank you. So doctors, if someone wanted to learn more about you, learn more about your book, Age of Love, and all the wonderful things that you're doing, where would you like for me to send them?
Dr. Michael Grossman [00:38:05]: They should go to falling in love forever.com. Fallinginloveforever.com. They can also go to ocwellness.com. So the medical side is the OC Wellness, and the relationship side is the formula forever.
Coach Allan [00:38:25]: Thank you. So doctor Barber, doctor Michael, thank you so much for being part of 40 Plus Fitness.
Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:38:30]: It's a pleasure. You've been fun to be with.
Coach Allan [00:38:33]: Welcome back, Raz.
Rachel [00:38:35]: Allan, that was a really interesting discussion with the doctors, Grossman. How fun. They're both doctors.
Coach Allan [00:38:41]: Yeah. I wanted well, one's a PhD, one's an MD. But, I wanted I wanted to get them on because, you know, one of the things we don't think about that that does affect our our health and our fitness and and Mhmm. Our longevity and everything is the relationships in our life. And one of the most important of those would would be, you know, your partner, your spouse. And too often, we let those things get bad Mhmm. And lack the skills to make them good again. And so this was this I think this was a good opportunity for someone to say, okay, I'm a I'm a grown person.
Coach Allan [00:39:18]: I'm gonna figure this stuff out. And, you know, so I I was glad to be able to kinda go through it. When they started talking about quantum entanglements and all that other stuff at the beginning of the book, I was about to say, okay, this might not be the book for me. But then they got to the practical stuff and and and everything. And at that point, you're like, okay, so now I understand what what they were going after and understanding where we are. And so now you have some tools to kinda look at who you are and where you are and understand each other better. But you and I were talking before we came on. Just one base key of this whole thing is communication.
Rachel [00:39:59]: 100%. I mean, communication is the absolute foundation of everything. And it it's funny as you look back at your lives Mike and I actually have been married for almost 30 years. Next year will be our 30th anniversary. And and as I look back, now that we're empty nesters, I'm a different person than I am today than I was when we got married almost 30 years ago. I mean, 30 years is a lot of years. And I've changed, but he's kind of
Coach Allan [00:40:27]: like, that's amazing.
Rachel [00:40:28]: You know? Well, to be honest, he puts up with lots. Me too. But that's a good example and it goes both ways. But there have been times where we have communicated very well and there's times where we've communicated very poorly. But, but, yeah, I mean, so much has changed. You have to go back and forth. You have to share with one another. And if it doesn't just happen naturally, I liked the doctor's idea about setting meetings and having deliberate discussions.
Rachel [00:41:00]: How are things going in your life? You know, what are you thinking nowadays? And, you know, if you can't do it again naturally, I mean, take a look at what major things are happening in your life today. For example, in my life, we are now empty dusters. We have no kids in our lives, which means I don't have that nurturing, caretaking focus that I had before. And so what am I gonna do? What am I gonna what does Mike think I need to do? You know? It's a good time to sit down and hash what we wanna how we wanna live our lives together now that we don't have kids in the house. It's a big change.
Coach Allan [00:41:38]: Yeah. Now now based on their the 5 states that they talked about, this would this would somewhat indicate that you're about to go into your warrior stage where you start building you start building your own your own thing. You know? You're doing your own things. And as a result, a lot of times when we get into that phase, particularly guys, we we shut down and focus solely on that. Mhmm. But I would dare argue that you you you still have to be a caretaker at some level.
Rachel [00:42:04]: Oh, yeah.
Coach Allan [00:42:05]: Because you're taking care of Mike. You've got your parents and things like that. Our generation, the x generation, is, is kind of interesting because we're living long enough, and our parents are living long enough that we're kinda caught in that middle ground of as soon as we finish raising our kids, we're moving over into taking care of our parents. And and at the same time, maybe there's an overlap for you. Sure. I didn't have that overlap because my kids were all well, our kids were all born earlier, but we're at that stage now where, yeah, we're we're shifting over and having to think about our parents and their care. And, so, yeah, there's there's always gonna be a little bit of maybe each of these in here at some level. Mhmm.
Coach Allan [00:42:44]: But, yeah, we get to a point, and we if we don't understand where we're going, we can't communicate to our partner where we where we are or where we're gonna be. So that's very odd.
Rachel [00:42:54]: Yeah. Even that's a good discussion to have. Quite honestly, I'm in that same boat where, you know, I've spent my life with focused on the kids. What do they need? Where do where do they need to go? Where do I need to drive them? Where do we go to eat for dinner based on the kids? And now if you ask me, where do I wanna go for dinner? I will not know because I I don't know what I want anymore. So that's a discussion that Mike and I have had. You know, I don't know where I'm going in my very immediate future or what I want to do, but I'm working on discovering those things. But because we're communicating that, you know, Mike and you know, we can just check-in with each other and and see what we want. So it's it's a change, but it's, again, communication, discussing these things Yeah.
Rachel [00:43:42]: Is the key.
Coach Allan [00:43:44]: It is. It is. Alright. Well, that's all I really had prepped for today. So talk to you next week.
Septuagenarians Barbara Bollinger and Margaret Crane share their wisdom on aging, relationships, and finding passion. On this episode, we discuss their book, Not Dead Yet: Rebooting Your Life After 50.
Sponsor
This episode of the 40+ Fitness Podcast is sponsored by Haka Life Nutrition, the maker of GLX3, I am really glad to have Haka Life Nutrition as a sponsor. Omega-3 is one of the few supplements I take regularly. But even with years of experience and having interviewed hundreds of experts in the health and fitness field, I have struggled to find a great solution, until now.
We all know farm raised meat doesn't give us the right balance of Omega-3 to Omega-6, and that Omega three helps reduce inflammation, which reduces joint pain and is heart healthy. Getting enough omega-3 isn't as straightforward as it should be from the mercury in the fish to poor production controls, it's really hard to find a high quality product that gives you what you're after. That is until GLX3.
Made from green-lipped mussels from New Zealand. This is the only natural source of ETA. I'm not even going to try to pronounce the full name. This version of Omega-3 is particularly effective at reducing inflammation and therefore reducing joint pain. That's why my wife is taking it now. I take it for heart health. Go to Hakalife.com/40plus and use the discount code 40plus to get a buy one get one free deal on your first order which gives you a two-month starter supply. GLX3 is my go to Omega-3 supplement going forward. It can be yours too by going to Hakalife.com/40plus and be sure to use the discount code 40plus for the BOGO deal.
Transcript
Let's Say Hello
[00:04:03.840] – Allan Hey Raz, how are you doing?
[00:04:05.640] – Rachel Good. How are you today, Allan?
[00:04:07.440] – Allan I'm doing OK and I'm feeling pretty good. It's been really, really busy. Trying to get a lot of things done.
[00:04:13.680] – Allan We're planning a trip back to the states and so looking all that travel and getting all organized and just stuff that's going on, it's like, OK, I got to get all this stuff done and get it done before, you know, this date. Sure, everything's organized and ready because, you know, there's still a lot of moving parts in my life that aren't fully within my control.
[00:04:34.320] – Rachel Right? Oh, yeah. It's a big trip for you guys coming from down there all the way up here.
[00:04:39.750] – Allan it is. We're going to fly up and then drive the circuit that includes Pensacola, north northwest Indiana, North Carolina and Miami. And I think there's even a stop in New Orleans in there. Yeah, round trip. I just measured it out. You know, you go and Google Maps and you plot it all out. It's 3500 miles driving.
[00:05:06.000] – Rachel Oh my.
[00:05:07.290] – Allan There we're going to do in a little over three weeks.
[00:05:10.290] – Rachel Oh my goodness. Look at you. Well, it's a good thing you have the time. Maybe you could spread it out a little.
[00:05:16.110] – Allan I might listen to a podcast.
[00:05:19.620] – Rachel That would be one of my favorite things to do, that's for sure.
[00:05:23.590] – Allan How are things up there?
[00:05:24.880] – Rachel Good, enjoying the summer. Got a couple of camp outs planned this month and watching the Olympics. The Olympics have been fun to watch the last two weeks. So, yeah, just enjoying a relaxing time.
[00:05:37.760] – Allan Yeah, I was sitting there last night. It was so funny because I had signed up for a sling account to try to watch some football. And I thought, OK, you know, I watch the football games on Sling and none of the games that were on that I wanted to watch, you know, and I didn't turn it off. So it kept billing me and I would say, OK, I got to remember to cancel this and I wouldn't do it.
[00:06:00.760] – Allan And then that's another fifty dollars. So finally, I sat there before this billing cycle, right after this billing cycle because I saw the bill hit, I'm like, that's it. I'm cancelling. But they told me I had one month left. So I'm like, OK, I better get on there and see if there's any movies or shows that I want to watch. And so I got on last night and got the women's volleyball was playing Italy and that's one of my favorite sports, volleyball.
[00:06:25.060] – Allan So I decided to go ahead and watch them.
[00:06:27.370] – Allan And fortunately they did take out Italy. But I think this is just a qualifier around. So it's just identifying who's going to be the group that's going to play later on. And I think there's going to be four teams that move on and Italy will still be in that four, along with Russia and the United States, and I forget who the other one is. But right now, they're just working on how the seating of all that's going to work.
[00:06:51.340] – Allan OK, so, yeah, it's good stuff.
[00:06:53.860] – Rachel It is. It's fun to watch these athletes in the prime, you know, just doing what they do best. It's been really fun to watch.
[00:07:01.000] – Allan Some of them are scary good.
[00:07:02.800] – Rachel Oh, my goodness. They are. World records are dropping everywhere. It's pretty amazing.
[00:07:07.960] – Allan And then you have Karch Kiraly.
[00:07:10.240] – Allan For those who don't know who that is. He was a pretty famous volleyball player in his day, playing, playing indoor in college. And then he went outdoors and started playing pro and went to the Olympics a few times.
[00:07:24.310] – Allan And but he's their coach. I was kind of like, this guy's still out there.
[00:07:27.910] – Allan You know, he's still in the game, which was really cool.
[00:07:30.640] – Rachel That's fantastic. It's amazing to see a lot of the coaches are former athletes, in one way, shape or form. And it's incredible to see them still enjoying getting the most out of their sport. It's really fun to watch.
[00:07:43.060] – Allan All right. Are you ready to have a very fun conversation with Barbara and Margaret?
[00:07:48.620] – Rachel Sure.
Interview
[00:08:07.450] – Allan Barbara. Margaret, welcome to the 40 Plus Fitness.
[00:08:10.780] – Barbara Thank you for having us.
[00:08:12.160] – Margaret Yes, thank you.
[00:08:13.870] – Allan The title of your book. And it's kind of one of the things we're talking about before we got on here is like, did you entertain? And absolutely. And just even the title of the book was entertaining, Not Dead Yet. And then the subtitle is Rebooting Your Life After 50. And the concept of that just really hit home for me. I mean, I'm fifty-five years old. I did go through covid this year. It wasn't nearly as bad as it has been for a lot of people, but it was just one of those moments, one of those phrases where you kind of get a little smile on your face and then you realize, well, I'm not.
[00:08:47.140] – Allan So what's next? And I was really excited to get an opportunity to read your book and then have you on the show so we could have some really good conversations.
[00:08:56.860] – Barbara Good. Thank you.
[00:08:58.240] – Allan All right, now. You start out the book, probably the way that I wish a lot of books started out with something just completely actionable, I'm a very actionable cut type of person. I love tips. I love things I can learn from other people. And I can say in the last two years, almost two years now, if you break it down, we've had a lot of reasons to not be optimistic.
[00:09:23.530] – Allan We've had a lot of reasons to be pessimistic and to look to the future and think, oh, my God, where where is this country going? Where is this world going? What's going to happen next with all of the things that are going on? It's almost like they piled on a little more than they should have, if you will. But in the book, you share some tips for maintaining optimism. And I loved every single one of them.
[00:09:49.540] – Allan There were at least, I think, a dozen of them. But could you go through some of your favorites and talk about them?
[00:09:55.300] – Barbara OK, I'll start. And this is Barbara. I think sometimes when we would get down, whether when we were hitting that a big milestone birthday or we are sick or there was another ache or pain as we were aging, it was almost like we talk daily as friends. And also because of our work, it was almost like, stop it. We're so lucky in so many ways. And I think that's one of our biggest things as we need it to remind ourselves of ways things, whether it's people, activities, things that we could be grateful for.
[00:10:31.090] – Barbara We both had roofs over our head during covid and other times we had food on our table, sometimes too much. We had TV we could watch. We had work that we were very blessed having. We had health care. So we try to do that. And it's Meg's idea to wake up and think about one thing that we like about ourselves, because sometimes we'll say, oh, we don't like our hair today or we don't like our body or whatever it was, again, almost stop it.
[00:11:00.370] – Barbara There are a lot of good things and we try to reinforce that in each other. Our grown children and other people. We also both like people, we like to socialize. And we're optimistic that we're lucky to have people. We're lucky to have family members. We're lucky to have friends to reach out to for help, to laugh. Laughter is big in both of our lives. So those are a few of the things that I think about being grateful for.
[00:11:31.660] – Margaret OK, I, I think one of the things we talk about one of our points is to stop worrying about the small stuff, focus again on, hate the cliche, but the glass half full and be appreciative of again, what we have a roof over our head, too many carbs on the table and all the good things. It's more like zeroing in on our assets rather than our deficits, sort of like, you know, taking stock of what we have and appreciating it and then realizing that what goes down will come up.
[00:12:14.620] – Margaret If one day is tough, the next day is bound to be better. And that's something I learned. It took me many years to learn that. Other ways to stay optimistic, be healthy, exercise, sleep. Learn something new and feel good about it every time I learn something that's related to technology, I feel so fabulous and like I really conquered, such as learning how to work and plug in these earphones. It took some checking on Google and YouTube.
[00:12:52.200] – Margaret So there are many ways to feel good about yourself and be happy when you wake up in the morning, have a new routine stretch, start new habits, try different things. There's no one grading you. You're not in school anymore. Take some risk.
[00:13:08.010] – Barbara I think one other thing is that both of us either we're born with it or become through different challenges. We're both resilient. We both faced in our last book, suddenly single after 50, we both experienced the loss of a spouse. Mine was through a divorce. Meg's was through death. And we managed some time from that generation that married very young. We managed to navigate singlehood and build new lives. And we've done that with other parts of our lives, with new friendships.
[00:13:43.230] – Barbara So that's something we're grateful for, that we have that inner, whatever it is that pushes us forward.
[00:13:52.050] – Allan Yeah, you touched on a lot of great points, and one of the things you talked about was to be thankful and I think that's probably one of the hardest things to do unless you really take the time to build a gratitude practice. I mean, so many times we sit down and it's just so easy to to look at something and say, well, why did that happen to me, you know, versus well, you know, think about all the good things that happened to me over the course of the last 10, 15, 20 years, you know, meeting my wife, having our family, some of the wonderful trips we took, just kind of looking back at the experiences that I've been able to have, you know, each and every day, it's sometimes it's really hard to slow yourself down and kind of have that conversation.
[00:14:39.400] – Allan So how, I mean, obviously, as we as we go through and we age, there's life changes and things like that, kids move out of the house, parents move back in the house, kids move back in the house, all the different things that go on. How do you ladies take the time or when you find yourself slipping off that optimism path, what are some things that you do to kind of get yourself back into besides the.
[00:15:06.480] – Allan I love the upraise, you know, stop it. I don't know if you what I'm pretty sure you watch Bob Newhart back in the day. And yes, I'm old enough to know who Bob Newhart is. But my favorite clip from him and you can actually watch it on YouTube is Stop It. And he's a therapist and a woman comes in there and says she's got this problem and his answer is, stop it. You know, just like that.
[00:15:29.960] – Allan And she's like, I don't like this therapy. And then he said to stop it, you know? And so but it was just it's hilarious. This hilarious clip. If you go through it, obviously some people have some issues and some mental health things that are going on. But if you're just someone who just occasionally finds yourself being a little negative on things, what are some tips to get us back on that path?
[00:15:52.390] – Barbara Well, I think, again, having a network of people you can talk to, I mean, you can have your own things like I like to take a walk in my village once or twice a day. I like to garden. I paint when I have the time, but I feel so blessed to have a friendship with Meg. We talk in our book about, oh, there's a book called Friendship, which is just wonderful. And they talk about a big friendship.
[00:16:17.500] – Barbara We don't just grab our selves as best friend. Meg has a really close friend from childhood. I have other friends, but we have a very honest, authentic friendship where we know we can talk. We know we can be brutally honest about what's going on. We know it's not going to go anywhere. We know how to make each other laugh. You know, even some of that laughter where you're almost peeing in your pants. Laughter. We've had a good time working together.
[00:16:44.320] – Barbara So I say to people, find a person you like. You don't need a huge network. You need a few people who make you feel good about yourself. I think that's so incredibly important. We're blessed with we have good kids. Do they annoy us? Of course they do at times, but then we laugh about that. So I think that I think that's made a huge difference in our lives. And we've seen, we also have friends and acquaintances who are very negative and not and that's hard sometimes for us to be around.
[00:17:19.360] – Barbara We know we have to be empathetic and sympathetic, but so we try to do our best with that by sharing. I think that's a big thing.
[00:17:28.670] – Margaret I was going to say Barbara and I both like to process out loud, hence, you know, I wake up and I'm in a terrible mood and the first thing I do is I pick up the phone and I call. Said, you're not gonna believe what my son said to me today or vice versa, what my daughter asked me to do. And we process it and we talk about it. And then in our heads probably saying to ourselves, stop it.
[00:17:56.870] – Margaret Or Barbara will say, Meg, what? I talk to you these days. I hear a lot of ugh ughs and you know what's going on and laying it out there with someone you trust is so important. And oftentimes what I'll do is I will get extremely busy. I start thinking of story ideas or I love to play opera. It puts me in a good mood when I play classical music. I have all these little coping skills. And I think you do, too, Barbara.
[00:18:30.710] – Barbara I do one thing that I greatly admire about Meg, and we share this. I think it's very important to help stroke each other people not send your kid every kid home with a trophy kind of thing or every friend. But Meg does a lot of volunteer work. Its course covid put a damper on that, but she was tutoring children in reading and now she's doing on Zoom, If I'm correct. I've done a lot of work, not of late, but with my college and think getting out of ourselves and thinking about other people, we think that's really, really essential.
[00:19:10.370] – Margaret Good point.
[00:19:11.210] – Barbara To again, to be thankful and know that we're incredibly lucky not every single day and not with every single thing. But other people are so much worse. So much. Yeah. And we need to help them. We need to do something about it.
[00:19:26.810] – Margaret Now, what Barbara saying is really important, I think, and I've told this to friends who are going through a depression or a hard time, do something to get outside yourself. It is so soothing and so nourishing and important. Makes you feel great. The right hormones are released.
[00:19:46.820] – Barbara We also, we both participated in Zoom's with childhood or high school or different friends from Meg did with her friends from St. Louis. Now that she's in New York, that's been a lot of fun to play. You know, I mean, we've all had zoom pretty good times and maybe some one of my Zoom groups, I think is sort of starting to shut down. But that's been a lot of fun. We've had celebrations online. We've attended Shrivels online of just that constant connecting, knowing there are other people out there.
[00:20:21.830] – Allan Yeah.
Sponsor This episode of the 40+ Fitness Podcast is sponsored by Haka Life Nutrition, the maker of GLX3, you know, the benefit of Omega-3 reduced inflammation, which helps with joint pain and heart health.
And, you know, you're probably not getting enough from your diet, but then you read about the mercury in fish or how the fish oil supplement you bought at Costco or Wal-Mart might be oxidized and rancid. Not good. Then you look into a plant-based solution and find it isn't very bioavailable or krill oil, which is much more expensive and isn't really sustainable. GLX3 is very different. It's from sustainably farmed green lipped mussels in New Zealand.
The 17 omega-3s found in green lipped mussels include ETA, which is not found at any fish oil. What is ETA? Not to bore you with the science, but it has been shown to be very effective at reducing inflammation and pain. Haka Life Nutrition has paired this oil with New Zealand olive oil and vitamin E to make a very unique Omega-3 supplement. I think it's brilliant. Mussels are at the bottom of the food chain and have a short lifespan so they aren't as susceptible to mercury contamination and they don't starve out other species when they're farmed in open water.
Haka nutrition is meticulous about their sourcing and encapsulation of GLX3. Each bottle is traceable all the way back to the place, date and time of harvesting to ensure you get the best quality Omega-3 product on the market. They offer a full 90 day guarantee. Go to Hakalife.com/40plus and use the discount code 40plus to get a buy one get one free deal on your first order, which gives you a two month starter supply.
GLX3 is my go to Omega-3 supplement going forward. It can be yours too by going to Hakalife.com/40plus and be sure to use the discount code 40plus for the BOGO deal.
[00:22:35.590] – Allan You got into that, and I think that's really kind of important. I've seen with my parents, my grandparents and others, as we age, relationships change, obviously. relationships with your children change. Your relationship with your spouse may change.
[00:22:53.770] – Allan Obviously, your relationship with your parents will change over time. Why is relationship and intimacy so important? And how do we maintain the right relationships and the right level of intimacy in our life as we go through those kind of changes?
[00:23:11.090] – Barbara I think you have to take almost a constant temperature check. But I'm not talking about daily. But if someone, a friend isn't making you happy, is critical finding fault with you all the time? I'm not talking about people should speak up and be honest and authentic if you hurt their feelings or whatever. But at times not every friendship has to last forever or doesn't have to be in your life on a daily basis or weekly basis. And I think you need to do that.
[00:23:42.910] – Barbara I think you need, I think our generation has been so eager to be friends with our children more so than our parents generation, that sometimes maybe we haven't parented even our grown children, as we should. Telling them, I don't appreciate if you speak to me that well or can you understand that I don't understand this technology the first time you try to explain it to me, it takes me a bit longer or I'm directionally challenged.
[00:24:16.360] – Barbara I need help in getting to your new destination. So I think we need to do that with each of our parents. I'll speak for myself with my mother as she aged, and I was very much a caregiver for her and with her a lot of the time. I took on that usual role of becoming the adult and it was very uncomfortable initially, but I knew someone had to do it. So I did it and it didn't. I wasn't always good at it.
[00:24:48.910] – Barbara And I would sometimes say to Meg, I think I'm really not doing the right thing or the right job. And I'm annoyed with her. I have incredible guilt about that when she would repeat the same thing ten times.
[00:25:02.860] – Margaret Relationships are as critical as to our lives as oxygen is to keeping us alive. Statistics have shown or studies have shown that loneliness can be the death knell. Having good social interactions can make you live longer. And I've had friends. I talked to someone the other day, lives in Portland. She had moved there from St. Louis who said, I'm new in town. I don't know anyone. I can't make friends at age seventy five. It's impossible. And Barbara and I would have said to her, that's not true.
[00:25:42.370] – Margaret And read our book and you'll find out how to make these friendships. There are many different kinds of friendships that we address. There are the big friendships like Barbara and I have. There are acquaintances. There are close friends from childhood where you share a history. But again, good chemicals are released in the brain. When you have those close friendships, when you sit down and you can really hang out with these people and be yourself. And how do you find friends?
[00:26:14.830] – Margaret We list tons of ways you can make and find new friends by joining things, you know, by taking classes and going to an art gallery or standing in the grocery line. Did you meet someone in a grocery line once, Barbara?
[00:26:31.390] – Barbara I talked to people. I mean, when I was dating during my marathon dating after my divorce, I would look at men's hands to see if they were married or not, see if there was a ring. Not that every man wears a wedding band. And I would look in the cart as a single serve stuffers, frozen spinach or whatever. And I'm sure I talk to people.
[00:26:55.090] – Margaret Well, you and I talk to everybody we do. I've met since I moved to New York City. I have met more people just sitting on a subway, on a bus, standing next to them on the street corner and working on projects, doing a project did one for the homeless. I tutor kids. Barbara mentioned that. I've met great women who are also tutors, we're part of a team sometimes. But all of that is so important to feeling good.
[00:27:23.710] – Margaret And a lot of women would say, well, you know, I don't know how to meet a man at this age or a woman at this age. What do we do? How do you meet these people? Barbara, you're the online dating queen, so you talk about that.
[00:27:40.390] – Barbara I went on a lot of dating sites when I was first divorced. Some people don't. And ironically, after all the dating I did, then I was fixed up with someone who's I call him my beau.
[00:27:53.860] – Barbara But also I was going to say that it takes time to build a really close friendship. So I would say the new people I've met since I moved to my village, for the most part, I have some good friends where I live, but they're not of the same depth of some of my former friends. So I think you have to accept the fact that not every friend is going to be your bestie.
[00:28:17.410] – Margaret But how would you define a really good friend?
[00:28:21.130] – Barbara I would define a good friend as someone who calls you, not just text you and says how are you? That sometimes picks up the phone, wants to see you in person when it's acceptable. Who shares about themselves. Both of us like people where they're sharing, where it's not just us doing will be revealing or whatever. So you know, that I think about a really good friend would be someone, if I move from here, that I would want to keep up with, not just who's been in my life right now on a temporary basis.
[00:28:52.960] – Margaret But we've also talked about good friends.
[00:28:55.450] – Margaret They bring you chicken soup. They even feed the chicken soup. If you can get that little spoon in your mouth, they drive you to the colonoscopy is you know, they cook for you. They would drive and pick up your mail or pick up your kids at school.
[00:29:13.360] – Barbara You pick up or they go and they pick up a friend for you and bring them on the line from kindergarten. It was a baby shower the other day from my older daughter and this friend of mine when she knew she was coming, she said, I'll go pick up Meg so you don't have to come into the city. A wonderful friend is that? And that's one thing about us. We like sharing our friends.
[00:29:38.020] – Margaret Yes, we do.
[00:29:38.590] – Barbara Not everybody does.
[00:29:40.450] – Margaret They also help us celebrate big events in our lives. You know, they're the ones we want with us. And, you know, I have a big birthday coming up. And, you know, they're there when we need them.
[00:29:55.140] – Allan Yeah, we moved to an island called Bocas del Toro. Islands called is the Colon, but it's a part of the Bocas del Toro archipelago. And it's one of the cool things about the people on this island is it's like that village you were talking about. It's like we all know each other. We all hang out together if we need something you quite literally just post it on Facebook and say, hey, any of my friends, are you going to the states?
[00:30:20.520] – Allan I need to mail a letter. So a friend has to sit and paperwork for Social Security to mail a letter from here to the United States would cost you about 40 to 50 bucks. versus the getting someone on an airplane to carry a letter. You're building it for what? Postage, what, 40, 55, 60 cents now in the United States? So you put postage on an envelope and they carry it to you.
[00:30:41.670] – Allan They'll do that. If you need something like your something in the United States that you can't get here, it's like, hey, would you mind carrying this in the suitcase? It's not big. Sure, we'll do it. So there's these just these little things that we all do for each other to make our lives on the island better. And yes, it's great. Those relationships mean a lot to me. And so it's yet you have that from out from a structure.
[00:31:03.330] – Allan And I had Vivian King on a few episodes back and she had a stroke when she was at a benefit and a lot of her friends were there. And if not for her friends, she would not have gotten care as quickly as she did, and she may not have gotten to full recovery. So having those relationships, having all of that in your life is important. Yes, from a practical perspective, yes. From a fun perspective. And then.
[00:31:28.560] – Allan Absolutely, Margaret, as you said, from a an emotional perspective with the chemicals and everything that comes on from having those close relationships in the time together, something that as a kid, you know, if you started thinking about, well, my parents certainly aren't intimate right now. They're not doing things like that because they're not enjoying themselves. Well, exactly where they were and they still are. And so it's kind of that thing to look forward to is to sit there and say, OK, you can you can think it's not happening or not going to happen, but it's going to happen if you want it to.
[00:32:02.350] – Allan Obviously, you can you can decide that that ship sailed and just decide it's not going to happen anymore. But for the most part, that's still an important part of your life as you get older. And so making sure that you have the fitness and have the health and to be able to do the things you want to do, because if you're already considering the blue pill guys, you need to talk to your cardiologist because it's probably not what you think it is.
[00:32:25.830] – Allan It's probably something else. And it's worth looking at your health first and then the blue pill if all else fails. But beyond that, and not necessarily from an intimacy perspective with someone else, how do you continue to find passion in your life as you go through things? Because things that were important to you when you were in your 20s are no longer important to you when you're in your 30s and on and on and on. So as we get older, how do we continue to keep passion in our lives?
[00:32:54.510] – Barbara Well, I when I move to my new location, I bought a house. It was the first house that I bought on my own as a single female, which is one of the largest groups of home buyers in the country. And this became a passion. And sometimes it's a nightmare because I'm in an older home and I was determined to make it into the house, into the home, a place where my family could come. My friends came. At one point I thought I was renting it in as my friends or wanted to come see where I lived.
[00:33:33.300] – Barbara I became a gardener, a farmer. I stopped doing that after about eight years because of all the animals eating my vegetables. I hated a lot when I was younger and in college, I went back to that to a weekly class. When I have the time. I love to cook and entertain. The entertaining went out the window during covid but two daughters who are good bakers and they were making holidays so I looked to how they were making bagels.
[00:34:02.130] – Barbara So I made a bagel. Meg would be cooking. We got a little competitive about some of our cooking, who made the better this or that or inspired each other. So just being curious about different things, we found different passions. I took up pilates when I came here. I'd only done it a little bit. I don't know if that's a passion, but TV became a passion during covid. I mean, literally, I was watching every night. I love is it Frankie and Grace or Grace and Frankie?
[00:34:35.430] – Barbara And you know, right now, Line of Duty is a British detective that I'm obsessed with. So it's always trying knowing that there's something else to do and to see.
[00:34:48.120] – Margaret Well, I have a new life in New York City, I moved here twenty two months ago and I am walking everywhere, in St. Louis., you drove everywhere. And this is a passion. I love the walking. I love the energy in the city. One of my passions is working with kids. I immediately started tutoring in East Harlem. I love music. I and my son works for a classical music organization. And I immediately started going to concerts there to fulfill that part of my life that I love.
[00:35:22.380] – Margaret But there are so many things you can do. People say to us, well, I don't know if I have any passions, how do I find my passion? And we talk about we give a pretty extensive list in the book, ways to tap into that, you know, make a list of all the books you want to read, even the ones you read in high school that you want to re-read. I mean, Barbara, how many times have you read Great Expectations?
[00:35:45.450] – Barbara About to read it again.
[00:35:46.920] – Margaret Yeah, OK. You know, trace your roots if you're interested in your ancestry, anybody can do that. Hey, I love the piano. I always want to learn to play it. My mother didn't give me lessons as a kid. Take it up now. You don't like it quit. You shouldn't do anything that makes you feel terrible or stressed. And again, you're not in school. Nobody's grading you on what you're doing. Ramp up your cooking chops.
[00:36:13.110] – Margaret Start experimenting in the kitchen. Everyone likes to eat. Maybe you have retired and you're not sure what to do with yourself. Set up a consulting business, perhaps you're PR professional, and this is something you can do. There are so many options out there. You can get ideas from where can you get ideas from books, TV stores, newspapers.
[00:36:36.690] – Barbara I think you need to take sort of a read on yourself what you like. Meg has always said, I hate exercise, but she started pilates during the pandemic for it was for physical therapy. Is that correct?
[00:36:53.250] – Margaret Well, it started in physical therapy. She allowed me to try those machine things and I was complaining the whole time, but I actually didn't mind it. Somebody asked me how I liked Pilates. I said, the best I can say is I don't hate it. So, yeah, unfortunately, the pandemic put the kibosh on that, but I'll do it again.
[00:37:12.330] – Barbara Listening to what our friends are doing, what we read in the newspapers, see on TV, just being open and knowing nothing.
[00:37:21.210] – Barbara I think one of our big lessons now that we is living more in the moment and knowing that everything doesn't have to be forever, we try this class or that class or it doesn't have to be forever. And we get to explore a lot of these ideas. We're very lucky. In the weekly blog, we write life lessons at 50 plus. We sort of like we take it. It's a cliche, but I use it. Nora Ephron, who said, you know, everything is copy of, which is, I think, what her mother told her, which is very true.
[00:37:54.270] – Barbara We go through something and then we test it out. I have my list of the 15 places I'd like to go before I am dead.
[00:38:03.430] – Margaret Also, another thing we talk about, this is a great time, if you think about it, because it is perfectly OK to really do nothing. If you want to sit around and listen to NPR in the mornings or your podcast or, you know, put on a daytime soap or just sit on a bench and look around and enjoy the people and the fresh air and the birds that fly by, mostly pigeons in New York City. Why not? Nobody is telling you. You don't have a boss telling you what to do anymore.
[00:38:33.090] – Margaret You are your own boss now, hopefully, unless you're still working and a lot of us aren't working for someone else or doing what we want, it's a great opportunity.
[00:38:46.650] – Barbara Very bossy kids who tell you what you should be doing.
[00:38:49.260] – Margaret Well, our bossy kids. Right, right. They love to tell us what to do.
[00:38:53.310] – Allan Well, if you're listening to my podcast, you don't need to be sitting down. You can walk and listen to a podcast. So put the podcast on. Put your headphones in. But be careful. Make sure you're watching out for traffic. But yes, go for a walk.
[00:39:05.130] – Margaret Absolutely.
[00:39:06.540] – Allan Ladies, you had a topic in your book, the concept in your book that I just I love. It's going to probably be my mantra, one of my mantras going forward for sure. And it is your inner cake baked. And I love that from the perspective of we you know, I talk to my sixteen year old daughter and I told her, I said, by the time you are twenty four, you're not going to recognize yourself relative to who you were.
[00:39:35.940] – Allan Sixteen and then she was twenty four. And I said by the time you're thirty you're not going to recognize who you were at twenty four as being you. You're just, you're always evolving and maybe those steps take a little bit more than six years later in our lives. I'm not sure I think I do change enough in six years that I look back and say, who was that guy? But, you know, we have this opportunity today to write the next chapter of our book, to write the last chapters of our book.
[00:40:05.670] – Allan And we can make that change today. And is your inner cake baked? We keep baking the cake until it is. And once we decide the cake is done, we pull it out of the oven and we are who we are. It sets and then that's the cake. Good or bad, burnt or not, that's our cake. And so can you talk just a little bit about that concept from your perspective of inner cake baked?
[00:40:30.900] – Barbara Well, I thought that after we wrote our last book that the cake was baked. This is the way life was going to be. And I found in town that we were both surprised that different challenges arose a lot. With regard to health. I'm not trying, but fortunately not serious illness, but things that needed to be corrected. So I'm evolving, trying to take better care of myself that because I think I took it for granted that I would always be healthy.
[00:41:01.920] – Barbara And now I've had some problems. And, you know, I'm not always healthy. I think also aware I'm a little bit more aware, especially of late, of what kind of people I like to be around. So I'm not rushing into some friendships and letting things maybe take a little bit longer before the values. I grew up in a house which was semi religious. I mean, there was a regular temple going but I really didn't feel I knew enough about my religion, something that I wanted to become more observant, but I wanted to know more and become a little bit more spiritual.
[00:41:43.050] – Barbara So I took two and a half year program on my religion fairly recently and made some actually very good friends. So that's one way I have evolved that I care much more about that than I ever thought I would. It really matters to me.
[00:42:02.700] – Margaret In my case, losing my husband to cancer meant my whole life changed. And in doing so, I used to have friends who lost a child or a spouse or a parent. And I felt sympathy, of course, but I really didn't understand what they were going through. And I have really changed in how I view loss and my compassion quotient. It is so very different having been there, done that. Our recipes can change. And that's the good news.
[00:42:38.100] – Margaret We don't have to keep the same recipe. I think we quote in our book, and I actually wrote this down, Daniel Levitin, who wrote successful aging quotes, Lewis Goldberg, who I think is considered the father of scientific concepts of personality. And he says you can improve yourself at any stage and personality traits. They are very pliable and influenced by certain situations. And as we get smarter about certain things, relate to our kids differently, learn how to handle different situations.
[00:43:18.140] – Margaret I think one of the benefits of aging is we don't stress out about certain things anymore. Would you say, Barbara, we're much more relaxed and if we have a toxic friendship, who needs it? We don't have to continue that friendship where for some reason in the past we thought we did.
[00:43:37.550] – Barbara May I interrupt?
[00:43:38.780] – Margaret Yes.
[00:43:44.150] – Barbara We always interrupt each other.
[00:43:44.150] – Allan Barbara, you're being very polite by asking if you can.
[00:43:48.390] – Barbara Yeah, Meg gave me strict instructions not to. No one going to interrupt each other like we can finish each other's sentences. I think we've both become better. And Meg I think maybe was better at this than me. And I've learned from her. We've become better listeners.
[00:44:05.240] – Margaret Yes. Good point.
[00:44:06.770] – Barbara And we hold off jumping in. You tell me you have an ailment.
[00:44:11.130] – Barbara I'm not going to right away tell me what to do or which doctor I'm going to listen to you and then maybe suggest something. Meg said something shortly after her husband died. I said something. Well, I know how you feel. I didn't say exactly like that, thank goodness. But I said it close and she stopped me and she said, no, you don't know how I feel. And she was absolutely one hundred percent right. So I think listening is the way we've evolved.
[00:44:42.500] – Margaret I think listening is the most important thing you can offer anybody right now. It's the only way we're going to mend some of these crazy differences we have with people and in all areas of our lives and society. And that is a skill we have honed and not just because we interview a lot of people and we report and so forth. This is more listening in our interpersonal relationships and it has really helped us grow closer to friends and family members.
[00:45:15.080] – Barbara We also try not to make as many assumptions. We're very good because we're writers. We write scripts in our head. In our head, we write them in emails. So-and-so didn't call me back, so they must hate me now or this happened or that happened. We're trying to stop it. I don't think it's something that's going to it doesn't happen easily. Let me say.
[00:45:38.630] – Margaret OK, Bob Newhart.
[00:45:42.890] – Allan Yeah. Two years went out, I love that. So Margaret, I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?
[00:45:54.620] – Margaret Well, OK, first of all, being mentally fit, you know, as Barbara said, take your temperature, metaphorically speaking, if you're having a really tough time, find a therapist. There are so many different kinds out there and there's no stigma attached to doing so. Barbara and I joke that it's the people who don't get therapy who are the really screwed up ones. And I'm using a good word there. The other thing. I think stay healthy physically, eat well, sleep, get enough sleep.
[00:46:33.400] – Margaret I'm on an eating well kit now because of reflux problem and I joke with Barbara, I'm literally eating like a bird. And that doesn't mean small portions. It means I'm eating seeds and nuts and it's ridiculous diet. But I want to be healthy. I don't want to live the rest of my life with stomach issues and get a good support system. If you have a good support system, that is a really wonderful thing, which we've alluded to a bunch of times.
[00:47:02.290] – Margaret Those are my three things.
[00:47:03.520] – Allan Great. Thank you, Barbara. I'll ask you the same question.
[00:47:07.630] – Barbara I agree with Meg. I think being active physically, as I said, I take a lot of walks in my village because I love seeing the houses and seeing the gardens and seeing people out. So I've done that. It's been on more streets in this tiny little place I live. I work out with a trainer, especially trying to work on balance. I fell five years ago because of ice and snow. But as we age, our balance is less good.
[00:47:41.290] – Barbara I saw my mother fall, have major accident. Giving of yourself, I think, is a way which we've talked about already, is really picking up on clues from people when they're a little sad or big sad or reaching. I have a good friend in St. Louis who's a widow, and I, I really try to when after her husband died, I was calling her almost daily, but it was I call her at least once a week or sometimes more.
[00:48:12.855] – Barbara If I don't hear from her, I call her again because I want her to know that I'm there. I'm not physically there, and I'll give her the time. And then I think both of us also where it is, we're in a new stage where we're learning to take better care of ourselves emotionally in the sense that it's OK if we buy that pair of shoes. It's OK if we spend a little more money on ourselves or in Meg's case, she used to buy the better chocolate.
[00:48:45.900] – Barbara I think it's important to indulge ourselves a little bit because we don't know.
[00:48:51.250] – Margaret How much time we have left, right?
[00:48:53.470] – Allan Yes, always buy the better chocolate.
[00:48:55.780] – Margaret Absolutely. I can't eat chocolate on this crazy diet and it's I'm like going nuts.
[00:49:01.900] – Allan OK, let's get that stomach squared away so you can get back to eating some good.
[00:49:06.310] – Margaret Will you send me some good chocolate from Panama? So they have it there?
[00:49:09.760] – Barbara Ask her about the brands and she'll tell you.
[00:49:12.700] – Margaret Oh yeah I am the expert.
[00:49:15.550] – Allan Awesome. Well ladies, thank you so much. If someone wanted to learn more about the book, Not Dead Yet or learn more about you and your blog, where would you like for me to send them?
[00:49:26.080] – Margaret Well, to our website, www.Lifelessonsat50plus.Com. The book is on Amazon. It's on our publisher's website, Broman and Littlefield. It's in libraries. It'll be in all the libraries soon and in independent bookstores. Where else?
[00:49:48.830] – Barbara Yes, in my town they have another bookstore. These small bookstores are important.
[00:49:56.710] – Margaret In St. Louis. Left Bank Books in St. Louis. Hopefully.
[00:50:01.750] – Barbara And our blog comes out. If you sign up, it will land in your email every Friday morning about 7:00 a.m. and we think it's a great way to start the weekend a little early with your cup of coffee or whatever. And some of them are funny, some of them are heartfelt. It's a mix. We have some guest bloggers sometimes come on and talk about an important topic and a lot of variety.
[00:50:30.830] – Margaret Our blog is a good habit to begin.
[00:50:33.820] – Allan The book was awesome. I appreciate having both of you on the show. Barbara, Margaret, thank you for being a part of 40 plus fitness.
[00:50:41.060] – Margaret Thank you. It's great meeting you.
[00:50:43.090] – Barbara And we may be coming down to visit you.
[00:50:45.220] – Allan Good, good.
[00:50:46.090] – Margaret That would be fun. When the weather's freezing here.
[00:50:48.900] – Allan It's never freezing here.
[00:50:51.670] – Margaret So jealous. Thank you.
Post Show/Recap
[00:50:58.400] – Allan Welcome back, Raz.
[00:50:59.880] – Rachel Hey, Allan. My goodness, what a fun discussion, but their book title says it all, Not Dead Yet.
[00:51:06.890] – Allan Yeah, you know, we're going to talk a little bit about how the podcast is made and how I pick guests next week. But that was kind of one of those things. I was scanning through upcoming books on Amazon. And then you see that title in you're like.
[00:51:22.850] – Allan I can't not have these people on. I got up. I hope they say yes, because that's going to be a fun conversation. And it was.
[00:51:30.770] – Rachel It sounded like. Yeah. You know, nice ladies.
[00:51:35.150] – Allan If if if you're in good health, generally good health when you get older, life doesn't get a ton harder.
[00:51:43.310] – Allan And I think that's one of the things they kind of show, is that they were in reasonably good shape. They take care of themselves.
[00:51:49.430] – Allan They do what's necessary. You know, they're not going to be out there winning any Olympic medals or anything. But, you know, they're having fun and they've got good relationships in their life. And they're not looking at this as if it's over.
[00:52:03.470] – Allan You know, the concept of is your inner cake baked is really important because I think so many people think that, well, what I've done where I am, I'm locked in. And I was fifty two years old and I get laid off from a job and I'm like, I'm never going to get back to that income again, you know, it's just not going to happen. I'm not going to I'm not going to be able to invest my effort and energy to get there.
[00:52:30.440] – Allan And I didn't want to.
[00:52:31.280] – Allan So I literally used that as the pivot to become, you know, what I'm doing today with the podcast and the training and all of that.
[00:52:38.330] – Allan And, you know, so just recognizing that you can teach a dog old tricks, can do different things. And if you're not bringing joy in, then, yeah, you're not going to be who you want to be when you're older.
[00:52:54.740] – Rachel Good point. You know, having just turned 50 myself, I can tell you that I am not the same person today than the person I was when I was 40 or even the person I was when I was 30. You know, so much of my life has changed. Priorities have changed. And I get that pivot that you just had in your life around the same period too. You know, I don't want that old life that I used to have when I was much younger.
[00:53:19.250] – Rachel And there's a lot available. There's a lot open to me right now, a lot of opportunities right in front of me. And it's I think sometimes we get stuck in that mindset about age. Like, I know fifty sounds old, but it certainly doesn't feel old. And in even sixty I'm looking at sixty think, and that doesn't sound a whole lot older than what I'm doing right now. So, you know, there's just because we hit a certain milestone age doesn't mean life is done or it's stopped or it's over.
[00:53:48.260] – Rachel You know, there's a lot available to us.
[00:53:50.720] – Allan Well, sixty is twenty percent more.
[00:53:56.040] – Allan It's a bigger number.
[00:53:56.960] – Rachel Yeah, sure.
[00:53:58.610] – Allan But no, I mean, you know, I think it's one. Yes. Fifteen years ago when life expectancy was in the sixties, sixty mattered. Life expectancy for most people now is well into their seventies other than last year was the first time life expectancy went down since World War Two. And so we do have to kind of look at that and say, OK, what does all this mean? But in a general sense, if you're healthy, if you're taking care of yourself, your fifties can be as good as your forties or 60s can be as good as your forties.
[00:54:34.140] – Allan Your seventies can be as good as your forties. It's just going to be that you have different priorities. And so maybe you're not pushing yourself to do ultramarathons when you're in your 70s, but you're still going to be a runner. I believe. You're still be doing things that you love. And that's really what this book was all about, is making sure that you have the relationships where you are living a full life. It might be redefined.
[00:55:03.500] – Allan You might have some health issues that are outside of your scope of control.
[00:55:07.790] – Allan But if you do, you still have opportunities to introduce gratitude and joy into your life every single day.
[00:55:14.630] – Allan And if you don't, you're missing the opportunity because you only have so many revolutions around the sun before it is over.
[00:55:22.250] – Allan And you need to take advantage of every single day you have and live it to the fullest that you possibly can.
[00:55:28.430] – Rachel That sounds great. And those ladies, Barbara and Margaret, they sound like the best of friends and enjoying time together and with their other friend groups. That sounds like they're really taking advantage of this time.
[00:55:39.800] – Allan Yeah, they are doing something kind of interesting. They basically it's like they bought a big house as a collective group of ladies and they're all moved in together. And so it's basically a group of women. They all know each other. They know that they're friendly and that they can get along in closed quarters. But they bought it in such a way now that they know that their independence is sort of much assured much longer than if they were living independently.
[00:56:07.750] – Allan So they're going to be able to have people around them that they know and care about and have those relationships in those conversations every single day without having to go into a home or lose some independence because they just weren't able to do it on their own.
[00:56:25.540] – Allan Yeah, so just realized sometimes you think outside the box, sometimes you do other things, but your training, your nutrition, your sleep, your stress management and the relationships that you're building and keeping and maintaining and maybe getting rid of some that you need to get rid of, you know, build, build the life that you deserve. Spend the time to make that investment in yourself of time, effort, money, whatever it is to make sure that you're building the life that you need because no one else is going to do it for you.
[00:56:54.940] – Rachel That's true. Yeah. The best years are right ahead of us, I think.
[00:56:59.230] – Allan Yeah.
[00:56:59.650] – Allan Now the best episode is right in front of us. Next week we're going to have Episode five hundred and that's going to be kind of a special episode. You know, I'm going to give a lot of behind the scenes stuff. They're still going to be a lesson. So please come back and listen to it. It's not going to be all about me talking about what Allan did over the last six years. It's going to be a lot of that.
[00:57:21.250] – Allan Yes. But it's also there's a lesson there's a very important lesson because you don't interview 311 people or books that authors three hundred eleven interviews and learn a few things.
[00:57:33.190] – Allan And there were things that I thought I knew when I started this journey with this podcast six years ago. And a lot of it was wrong. And now I know things a little bit better. I've learned what works. And so I'm going to share what I call the wellness system.
[00:57:51.610] – Allan And like I said over and over on this podcast, I love acronyms and lists, but this is going to be an acronym system. So join us next week and we will talk about the seven necessary things in the wellness system.
[00:58:05.650] – Rachel That sounds great. Can't wait.
[00:58:07.300] – Allan I'll talk to you next week, then.
[00:58:08.830] – Rachel Take care.
Patreons
The following listeners have sponsored this show by pledging on our Patreon Page:
This episode of the 40+ Fitness Podcast is sponsored by Reel Paper. Go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/tp and use the discount code 40plus to get 25% off. Thank you for supporting the show by checking out this wonderful company.
Let's Say Hello
On this episode, we're introducing a co-host for the 40+ Fitness Podcast.
Rachel Everett is joining the wellness industry as a newly minted NASM Certified Personal Trainer. So, you'll find a preamble at the beginning of each episode and a wrap up at the end. With 450 episodes done, I felt this would be a great way to freshen things up.
Please join us on the 40+ Fitness Facebook Group at 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/group to welcome her to the podcast.
[00:02:53.360] – Allan Rachel, how are you doing.
[00:02:56.130] – Rachel Great! How are you Allan.
[00:02:57.160] – Allan Doing really good. I'm excited to have you on as a new co-host to the show. So everybody say welcome to Rachel.
[00:03:04.670] – Rachel Well, Hi and thank you so much. It's an honor. I've been your biggest fan for quite a while, so it's a real treat for me. Thanks for inviting me on.
[00:03:12.740] – Allan Yeah, Rachel and I have been friends for a good long time. We met through my wife and one of the cool facts about Rachel and her husband Mike is that their birthdays are exactly one day apart. So they're celebrating for a full 48 hours every year. It's pretty cool to be at one of those celebrations, especially when you're there at midnight with them. When it crosses over.
[00:03:36.110] – Allan I forget you're you're actually one day your birthday is the one day before.
[00:03:41.180] – Rachel I'm the after.
[00:03:43.190] – Allan Oh, okay. Oh yeah.
[00:03:44.410] – Rachel Mike is the old man.
[00:03:45.350] – Allan Okay, yeah, Mike is the old man, although he's lost a lot of weight and he looks years younger. Well cutting off the beard health too.
[00:03:54.250] – Rachel Yes it did. Yeah.
[00:03:58.160] – Allan Well, go ahead.
[00:03:59.590] – Rachel Oh, he's been working real hard this year. He's been putting in a ton of miles, his running has been epic. And he's and it's led to a ton of weight loss. He's been doing real great.
[00:04:10.160] – Allan So how's your week been?
[00:04:12.660] – Rachel Good. Little nutty. The kids are back to college, so I've got one in college and staying at college and my other one is home doing the online classes. So it's just it's been kind of crazy, although they do their own thing, they're getting set up for what you know, in class and online learning. It's just been kind of nutty with all the covid procedures that the school has in place. But they're doing great.
[00:04:38.270] – Allan Well, good. Well, I've been focused on my miles. You know, I talked about in an earlier episode that I'm doing my famine season. And I started actually June 1st. I think in the episode I may have said May 1st, but I've actually lost twenty-five pounds as we record this since that start June 1st. And it's basically, you know, using ketosis, intermittent fasting and just enjoying good long walks, getting sunshine, looking at the beach, and listening to some audiobooks and podcasts.
[00:05:10.490] – Allan So, you know, I think I've done twenty-seven miles this week.
[00:05:15.490] – Rachel Wow.
[00:05:15.860] – Allan You know, and unfortunately, I RunKeeper fell out on me apparently when I stopped to take a picture or selfie, it decides, oh, he stopped and I just paused this here. And if I don't remember to reset and start it. So you get down the road and you're like, I don't hear my little lady telling me how I'm doing.
[00:05:31.160] – Rachel That's right.
[00:05:31.610] – Allan And then I realized I just walked two miles without her telling me anything. So now that's not going to show up. So my winning my championship or my fastest ten-mile walk or whatever is just not going to be on that app. So that's the frustration. So now I started a spreadsheet, so I'll keep up with myself, dammit.
[00:05:50.700] – Rachel Yeah, technology, it's so awesome, but it can also be just as frustrating.
[00:05:54.710] – Allan It can be. So let me introduce our guest today.
Interview
Our guest today is one of the most famous and successful cosmetic dermatologists in the world. Often called the beauty guru by his celebrity and international patients, renowned for his minimally invasive techniques and holistic approach to cosmetic rejuvenation and age management. He is regularly featured as a skin and aging expert in local and international media. As a board-certified dermatologist, he has lectured around the world and has authored several articles on both consumer and professional literature. He is a clinical assistant professor of dermatology at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Hospital.
With no further ado, here's Dr Paul Jarrod Frank.
Transcript
[00:06:38.530] – Allan Dr. Frank, welcome to 40+ Fitness.
[00:06:41.190] – Dr. Frank Hey, how are you?
[00:06:42.810] – Allan So I got your book and I was really glad to have an opportunity to read it, because as I get into my mid 50s, aging has become this this thing that I pay a lot more attention to these days. The book is called The Pro Aging Playbook: Embracing a Lifestyle of Beauty and Wellness Inside and Out. And I have to say that your approach to this is really refreshing because sometimes, you think, okay, this guy makes his living by making people look and feel younger.
That's what this book is going to really be about, is just let's sell some more plastic surgery. But it was absolutely not. And I was really, really glad to see that.
[00:07:26.050] – Dr. Frank Well, I mean, listen, I've been doing this 20 years now, and I find the greatest way to predict the greatest cosmetic result has to do before you even do the procedure. It's just in the talk and gaining a feel of someone's perspective and feeling about aging and all the other things they do. So to me, what I've learned most in 20 years is not how to use the syringes and the lasers and all the things, but the most impactful thing is to learn how people think about aging and how I could help them think about it and then give them all the wonderful options we have now. It's not a bad thing aging, is it?
[00:08:01.030] – Allan Well, no, but if you do it right.
[00:08:03.890] – Dr. Frank If you do it right. I mean, listen, we weren't meant to live probably past the average age of 30 up until the last 50 to 100 years. So I think if we start with the idea that aging is a blessing, I think that's a good way to find ways to become the best version of yourself.
[00:08:25.030] – Allan And this is you pulling out your psychology degree and using it, because it really does help here. And one of the things that I think is as I've gotten older, I've become much more aware of the words that we use and how that impacts our feelings, our lives, our emotions, our successes and failures. You prefer to use the term pro aging versus anti aging.
[00:08:48.640] – Dr. Frank Yeah, and you know, anti aging, that's a word that immediately has a negative connotation. And it was created as a marketing tool. Right, this is started back decades, generations ago with selling creams and lotions and potions and things that are anti as if aging is a bad thing. And I think starting out from that that type of perspective is that type of negative thinking that we were just talking about. I think pro aging makes people feel more positive. It makes it look like less of a chore and more of something that you can embrace.
[00:09:27.130] – Dr. Frank And hopefully I could teach people how to live a lifestyle, a pro aging lifestyle to bring all those things together. And we're lucky now. We live in a world where we have so many options, not just to keep us alive, but to make us look and feel good.
[00:09:39.760] – Allan And so go a little deeper into when you say pro-aging, exactly what that means.
[00:09:45.640] – Dr. Frank Well, I think it's a culmination of a lot of different things. Again, people think of the word anti aging. They think of like creams and procedures and all these things. But when I think of pro aging, I'm thinking of a lifestyle that involves a lot of forms of grooming. And to me, grooming can be exercise, the way you choose your meals, the way you choose your friends and the people who are positive and negative in your world, and how you choose lasers to get rid of sun damage if you choose lasers or other surgical procedures or things like that.
[00:10:18.070] – Dr. Frank Pro aging is really a combination of grooming techniques. And I think one of the things I'm noticing more since when I started in the late 90s, is that because of technology and the access across socioeconomic groups and because of the technology, there's less and less. but basically these things are becoming so much more acceptable. When I was a kid, rich, only rich people had gym memberships, let alone had facial plastic surgery. And now the younger generation looks at joining a gym, having a nutritionist, having a life coach, getting a little Botox.
[00:10:53.090] – Dr. Frank These are all forms of grooming. They're accepted. And to me, this is all part of the kind of pro aging lifestyle that I think people are now embracing and breaking those anti aging stigmas that they used to have. The ladies at lunch do procedures or vain people do these type of things.
[00:11:13.520] – Allan Now, you use this title for for the bad things we do to ourselves that involve aging maybe faster or at least looking older than we are. When you use it, I immediately in my head had this concept of this Legion of doom, you know, these these these evil-doers, these these terrible the anti-heroes, you know, the villains. And you called it the extrinsic evildoer of aging, evildoers of aging, and I was like I say, when I when I read that, I was just thinking, you know, these are the bad guys. These are the guys, the villains that we have in our lives. Can you talk about who these extrinsic evildoers of aging are?
[00:11:53.400] – Dr. Frank Well, listen, smoking, drinking, excessive sun exposure, all these type of things, not moving, not eating right. Fatty foods. These are like the evil do's of aging. We all know that these things are bad for us. But I try and relate to my personal story. I'm 50. I'm in my 50 years old. I wasn't an angel. I was young once. I used to lay in the sun and drink more and do all these different types of things and you change your ways if you want to feel good as you age. Otherwise, if you act like a 20 year old at 50, you're not going to come out too well.
[00:12:27.750] – Dr. Frank I always say if I want to look and feel my best, I act like an old person. When I want when I try and act too much like a young person, I don't feel or look that good. But these evil doers of aging, let's say drinking and smoking, for example, we know they're bad from us. And I want to teach people how to moderate them. I give my personal story. I think a life of total restriction is a very boring life, not eating good foods, not not having a martini every once in a while.
[00:12:56.400] – Dr. Frank But I do believe that you could feel good and look good by finding a healthy balance. And as we get older, obviously those limitations may be coming a little restrictive. What society tells you is that there's always a pill, a cream, a shot, a coach or something that's going to be an antidote to all those things. And the fact of the matter is, the best way to treat yourself is just to learn how to moderate those evildoers. To not bake yourself in the sun doesn't mean you have to hide from the sun.
[00:13:24.000] – Dr. Frank So I think this balance, instead of selling people what they have to buy teaching people how to moderate and minimize these things and teaching them about the science and how it makes aging, I think works in teaching people how to live a better lifestyle.
SPONSOR
This episode of the 40+ Fitness Podcast is sponsored by Fastic. Before we had refrigeration, processing and bulk transportation, we just didn't have access to food like we do today. Because we're opportunistic eaters, most of us consistently eat more than we should. And our bodies don't know how to signal to us that we've had enough. I practice intermittent fasting regularly, and it's a strategy many of my clients use to get control of food and as a happy side effect, lose weight.
Fastic is an app you can download on an Apple or Android smartphone. It's a pretty snazzy app with a lot of tools to help you do intermittent fasting right. It not only lets you track your fasting, but water consumption, steps and a lot of other things.
You can also connect with a fasting buddy to help keep you even more accountable. If you have an iPhone, go to 40plusfitnesspodcasts/ifastic. For an android, go to 40plusfitnesspodcast/afastic. If you're interested in learning more about intermittent fasting or just need some help getting started. Go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/ifastic for an iPhone. Or 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/afastic for an Android phone.
[00:15:08.280] – Allan One of the things that you got into and I thought was was really interesting was, you know, we we want to rule and I think people like simple stuff. And I can give them one rule out of this. No smoking. Just just don't do it.
[00:15:22.160] – Dr. Frank There is no moderation in that.
[00:15:23.610] – Allan There's no moderation in that one. But when we start talking about sun exposure, I'm like, a little bit of sun exposure is good for almost all of us and for other people. Even a little more is even OK. How does someone decide for themselves the right way that, OK, this is this is my line. This is where this makes sense for me and this doesn't.
[00:15:47.910] – Dr. Frank Well I get it. And I try and talk to a lot of dermatologists, but they are just like no sun, wear sun protective clothing. I can't do that. Dermatology is one of the few fields in medicine where we really have to judge people by the color of their skin and certainly anyone with a family history of skin cancer. I'm going to be more restrictive about. But people who tan easier, what we call type three skin, type six skin are like African American, Type four or five is like Hispanic, you know, type one and two skin are the fairest of people, like the blonde haired, blue eyed type.
[00:16:18.450] – Dr. Frank And those are the people that have to be more restrictive. But by the way, those people don't ever tan well, and they never look good that way. You know, the darker skin types, the J-Los, you know, they kind of tan well. So, again, sitting people down and giving them a realistic. And by the way, anyone with sunscreen used appropriately can enjoy the outside. There's no reason why they have to hide. I feel that way about martinis and beers, too, by the way. You know what I mean, not all people have the same tolerance level of alcohol.
[00:16:47.250] – Dr. Frank And by the way, smoking is bad as it is. The studies show people like, oh, I've been smoking my whole life. There's no point to quitting now. By the way, as a person who's been smoking a pack a day for most of their life, if they quit smoking in ten years, the risk of cancer goes down to almost that of a non smoker. So, you know, there's hope that's a positive thing for people to make changes in their lives. And that's kind of what I want to help people do.
[00:17:10.860] – Allan Yeah, absolutely. Now, you said something in the book that made my heart sing as a personal trainer. He said, the number one thing you can do for pro aging, longevity and beauty is to get moving.
[00:17:24.490] – Dr. Frank No question.
[00:17:25.380] – Allan OK, and I love that, obviously. So can you give us some tips so that we can put some more movement into our life?
[00:17:33.030] – Dr. Frank And my examples for myself and I like to work out four to six times a week. But you know what? It's not that forty five minutes a day that makes all the difference. It's taking the stairs instead of the elevator when you have the opportunity. It's like taking that walk instead of jumping into Uber, which by the way, functions as meditation, which functions as exercise, which functions on catching up on phone calls with friends and communication to your environment. It's just it's choosing sometimes the path that involves movement. And, you know, in a world where everyone is looking for a convenience, quick time, I think the best time you could spend is just moving your body.
[00:18:11.280] – Allan So in the book, you did share some fairly specific tips as far as you know, as we're going through how we can make this, I guess, a little bit more regular.
[00:18:21.210] – Dr. Frank Yeah.
[00:18:21.390] – Allan And I think a couple of them that you shared that I really like and you you actually got into this a good bit in the book is about negative self talk.
[00:18:30.710] – Dr. Frank Oh, yeah. I mean, listen, when we're younger, we look to make as many friends as we're getting older. We're looking to make as many professional social connections as we build our life and career. We all start off very naive and potentially influenced by people. And that's why our mothers, they want us hanging out with the good friends, not the bad friends. And we have to realize I have two children. I'm constantly trying to screen who they spend time with. Do I know their parents? Do I know the kids? Do I think it's a good kid. We have to look at ourselves in the mirror.
[00:18:59.820] – Dr. Frank Every day is our lives and we have to learn how to filter people. The content. And that's not just on our social media feed, it's on the people we spend our time with trying to spend our time around positive people because negative thinking breeds negative thinking, so do negative people. And I find myself I started doing transcendental meditation seven years ago with my wife and really taught me how to filter things in my own mind and try and surround myself with things that are going to be, they're going to promote positive things in my life. I think that's the most important tool that we that we can constantly think of.
[00:19:35.490] – Allan Yeah. With, you know, one of the things you brought up when you were talking about movement was you were being very clear that it doesn't have to be a gym. But, you know, in a lot of cases, I kind of compare and contrast that against what you just said is surrounding yourself around other people that are positive and into it. You know, if you can find a group class of pilates or something like that that you enjoy doing, by all means, do it.
[00:20:00.030] – Allan And as we're recording this, obviously a lot of gyms are not open. A lot of classes aren't happening. But they will reopen, they will come back and as they do, finding that thing that works for you, be it surfing, be it running, be it lifting, be it going and doing a pilates class, I think that's all very, very important.
[00:20:20.030] – Dr. Frank There's something out there for everybody. And that's kind of what I tried to say. You know, I try and tell people it's great getting word of mouth like, oh, I just tried this new workout app or I tried soul cycle. I did this. It's nice to get word of mouth to kind of get you to try new things. But people need to realize there's no one thing that works for everybody. And your expectation, sure. We like the communal aspect because it pushes us. I Was always a big soul cycle person, it just works for me. And it's nice to be pushed by your environment, but you have to realize you have to find your own way. And this is all about balance. And this is true in every aspect.
[00:20:58.010] – Allan And I think just just to go deeper into that, one of the things you said in the book is you really didn't consider yourself an athlete as a child, but as soon as you strapped roller skates because you're parents took you to roller skate rinks, boom, there you were every weekend.
[00:21:14.530] – Dr. Frank And, you know, and again, that's probably one of the reasons why I like Soul Cycle too, because it involves dancing in a form of exercise. My club days aren't so strong these days. You know, being on the dance floor until two o'clock in the morning is not that much of an option for me. But being around music, being inspired by other people, sweating around other people and feeling that that endorphin rush, that's what we all want.
[00:21:38.030] – Dr. Frank That's pro aging. What's great about you want to find things that you can age with. Swimming, tennis, walking up and down stairs, taking walks, cycling, you know, not everybody could box until their 70. Some people can. And I think I have yet to find a laser or device that works for aging like exercise does.
[00:22:01.610] – Allan And that's important. That's important here. So you're 50 and obviously someone that is in this profession. So looking your best, age in your best, that's kind of a part of who you are now. It's ingrained in you 20 years in the career. What is your pro aging regimen was what does your day look like?
[00:22:23.090] – Dr. Frank Well, my day starts with meditation. Got to reset. You know, I'm a person. I do sleep eight hours a night. And it's mostly because if I get less than six, I'm not fun to be around. Like, you know, I'm not I'm not one of those people who can get by in four hours of sleep like some people claim. I like to sleep well. I meditate. I usually spend a little time with the family because it's the only time I get when my head is clear, is really the morning. And then after that, I exercise every day because again, after a busy day, it's I'm not going to get to do that at night.
[00:22:56.380] – Dr. Frank And then I hit the pavement and I'm kind of on stage all day. I could see anywhere from 20 to 40 people go through my office every day and I obviously got to be on point for a lot of different people and a lot of different personalities. I try and have as much fun as possible, that's kind of my rule as I've done this 20 years. Is to keep it fun, keep it light. And and usually at the end of the day, I don't got that much left into me if I do have a work dinner or something like that or I go home to the family. But the meditation, the exercise are the prerequisite in terms of food. Again, I don't tell everyone to follow my technique, but I'm kind of not by choice a daytime faster I graze.
[00:23:40.730] – Dr. Frank I have a little things I maybe have like an avocado or I have some nuts or I take a bite, my sister runs my entire professional life so I could I can dip into her salad or take a few bites of a sandwich if I want to, without offending her. And then I really I have my meal, whatever I want at night. And on the weekends, I love to cook and I love to eat and I like to indulge. And that's really it. And before you know it you're turning 50.
[00:24:07.670] – Allan Yeah. And then 60 and 70 and then on.
[00:24:11.270] – Dr. Frank And that's it. I try and you know, my life I fortunately have a very successful career with a lot of challenges and a lot of rapid growth. So I'm constantly trying to remind myself about the people and the things, like keep it positive, keep it simple. Because the world wants to complicate things, wants to sell you more, wants to do more. And a lot of things seem exciting, like growing your business. Right. It's an exciting thing.
[00:24:34.310] – Dr. Frank But guess what? You constantly have to keep it in check. Is it going to give me more pleasure or is it going to give me more headaches? You know, and it's not easy. You know, I'm not always great at it. Catching covid and having 13 days of 103 fever and having problems breathing and having to be on home oxygen, that kind of put things a little bit more in perspective for me to check myself before I wreck myself. So I was very nervous about the pro aging playbook coming out about of course I started writing this way before covid.
[00:25:04.220] – Dr. Frank I was nervous about, oh my God, I'm doing a wellness book. But I actually reread it from beginning to end right before the book came out with a covid mind, and I'm excited that it came out now because a lot of it is just about the psychology of life.
[00:25:19.810] – Allan Well beyond that, I mean, one of the things that we're finding with regards to covid and the risk is just how well you've managed your fitness, your health, your, all of it. And if you're suffering from some health issues, obviously you're not you're not pro aging at this point. You're in decline. And this is a wake up call to all of us that taking care of our health is really the only thing that's in our control. We can't control what goes on at work. We can't control what's going on in the street. We can't control a killer virus that ravages the country. What we can do is control ourselves.
[00:25:59.890] – Dr. Frank And a lot of people said to me they were so shocked because of my social media. I kind of became this poster person for Covid. Cosmetic dermatologist has become the poster person for information for Covid. They said, I don't understand, you're so young and healthy. I said, well, I'm glad everyone thinks 50 is young that's a great start. But I said, well, I don't think of it like that. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe I got it. I do such things to take care of me.
[00:26:24.220] – Dr. Frank Maybe if I didn't take such good care of myself, I would have needed hospitalization or intubation or been one of those young people that died, you know what I mean? So I look at it the other way, like, thank God I was in good shape. So again, we've got to keep taking care of yourself. And along the way we might as well look good.
[00:26:42.090] – Allan Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if you know who Tony Horton is, the guy who did P90X.
[00:26:47.030] – Dr. Frank Yeah, of course.
[00:26:48.010] – Allan I had him on the show and he went through shingles at the age of like sixty, sixty one. And it would have for what it does to a lot of people, you know, him being generally fit and healthy. He's weathered it really well. But, you know, it really does kind of speak to me. Again, we don't know what's going to happen and if we're not taking care of our health, then we're setting ourselves up for something worse.
[00:27:15.550] – Dr. Frank Listen, you can invest money in the stock market, invest money in your own business. You can invest your time and energy and money in a lot of things. But there's one thing that is a guaranteed return on investment, and that is yourself. And that is whether you're exercising, eating right, doing something that makes you feel good about yourself. When you look in the mirror, everyone has a good hair day. I don't care how,
[00:27:39.370] – Allan You haven't seen a picture of me.
[00:27:41.350] – Dr. Frank But I do want to make fun of himself over another one. You don't have to be, you know, just having a little sense of vanity doesn't mean you're narcissistic. And I think any investment in yourself, in yourself, not for other people in yourself, is is is a 100% return on that investment.
[00:28:00.040] – Allan Yeah. Just just for the record, I shaved my head when I started receding. Rather than do anything about it, i just went with it. Yeah. It's the best decision I could have made. It really is.
[00:28:11.980] – Dr. Frank Thats good man. Is that that's keeping it simple stupid. That's the rule of kiss right there.
[00:28:16.180] – Allan Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Frank, I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well.
[00:28:25.870] – Dr. Frank Well. And we talked about we talked about a couple of these. we talked about movement, moving your body for me, also meditation, and then investing in family and friends. Those are the three starts. All the other stuff comes once you have those three things in check.
[00:28:51.480] – Allan Absolutely so, Dr. Frank, thank you for being on the show. If someone wanted to learn more about you, learn more about your book, The Pro Aging Playbook, where would you like for me to send them.
[00:29:02.090] – Dr. Frank Well, you could send them to my website at pfrankmd.com or they could check me out social media, Instagram, and Tic-Toc and Facebook, which is at Dr. Paul Jerod Frank.
[00:29:12.840] – Allan OK, you can go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/451, and I'll be sure to have a link there. Dr. Frank, thank you so much for being a part of 40+ Fitness.
[00:29:23.240] – Dr. Frank Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.
Post Show/Recap
[00:29:29.770] – Allan All right, I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I did. Dr. Frank was a really cool conversation, and I know we've been talking about aging a lot, but, you know, with me being approaching my mid 50s, it's a topic I think about a lot. So maybe I've seen too many books about aging. We'll go off on to some different topics in a bit, although I think our next week's episode is also going to be about aging, but it's kind of a different approach.
[00:29:55.780] – Allan So we'll talk about that later. So, Rachel, Ras, why don't you take just a few minutes to introduce yourself, let folks know who you are and why you're here.
[00:30:05.740] – Rachel All right. Well, hi, Allen. Nice to talk to you again. My name is Rachel, and most of my friends call me Ras. That's a childhood nickname that I've had. And once you get to know me, it just seems fitting. But most people call me Ras and I'm forty nine, which is why I've always been a big fan of your podcast lately. I'm over 40 and I like to be fit. And I've recently finished my NASM certification. I just got my certificate to be a personal trainer, so I'm pretty excited about that.
[00:30:38.770] – Rachel Like I said, I'm forty nine. My husband Mike and I have been married for 25 years and we just celebrated our anniversary this last summer, which is great. And we both have we have two kids that are in college just starting off this next semester. One's at home and online learning and the others moved to campus. And so we're just hoping they stay safe in this covid era.
[00:31:02.470] – Allan Now, one of the reasons I thought that Rachel would be a great guest for the show is she is a huge advocate of running. In fact, anywhere Rachel goes, if there's not already a run club, there will be one.
[00:31:15.730] – Rachel Yes, yes, yes. Running has been a huge part of my life. I've been running consistently for over twenty years, actually. And it's served a different purpose at different times in my life. But everywhere I have traveled and we have traveled quite a bit, we've been in contact with different run clubs in different areas. And it's really a great way to meet friends especially when you move as often as we have. And I have some amazing friends that we've met down in Florida, including you and Tammy, your wonderful wife.
[00:31:49.000] – Rachel And it's it's always a great way to get to know the city as well while also staying healthy and fit. So, yeah, I've got a pretty big running background. I've run too many 5 and 10 Ks to count. I'm up to over thirty closing in on forty half marathons. I've done Four fulls, 2 Ultra's and this year I was supposed to be running another Ultra as well as my first 50 miler. But covid shut those races down pretty early. So this year it's just about running miles and enjoying the time outdoors.
[00:32:27.370] – Allan Yeah, I've been trying to put on some more mileage just but I'm not running right now. No one's chasing me and so I enjoy the walk. Plus, you know, for me it's not a function of time. I set my own schedule pretty much here. So if I want to get out, walk for three, three and a half hours, I'll go do it. And we have some beautiful beaches here. So kind of the cool thing is the further I walk, the more the better beaches I see.
[00:32:53.140] – Allan So it's like I start out the public beach is not all the all that pretty with the seaweed and everything in the water. It's just not all that pretty. Once I get to two miles, I start seeing prettier beaches and I get the four miles, I start seeing awesome beaches. And so by the sixth and seventh mile, it's just breathtaking, the Bluff Beach and things that are here for me to see. So it really kind of pushes me when you're walking in one direction that far and, you know, OK, well, I've got to walk back.
[00:33:19.510] – Allan So it's nothing for me to put on ten miles on a day just to get out and do a long walk. Three hours, nothing major, just listening to podcasts or audio books or things like that. And then when the batteries die on my headphones. I just now I get to listen to the surf.
[00:33:36.510] – Rachel It sounds wonderful.
[00:33:38.340] – Allan Yeah. So you did go for the NASM certified personal trainer. And I can tell folks, having done it myself, actually took that test twice, not because I failed it, but because I messed up on my recertification. I had to take it again. It's not a joke. It's not this is easy, go study for a week or weekend, and then go take a test. It's like a college-level course with a comprehensive final. So congratulations on that.
[00:34:07.420] – Rachel Thank you so much. Yeah, it was a little bit more intense than I thought it would be. And even even after twenty years of running and believe me, I do a ton of reading and researching on all things fitness related. I still learned so much from this class. It was it was really in-depth. And I can't wait to put what I've learned to good use.
[00:34:31.610] – Allan So, as you can see, Ras is the runner is also female and I am neither of those. So, you know, I think we're going to have a good rounded conversation as we go forward. So I invite you to come back, catch Ras and me as we discuss the different things that we're getting into with the podcast with life. So if you have questions, you know, feel free to send them to us. You can send them to Allan@40plusfitnesspodcast.com and Ras and I will take a round of responding to some of those in this final section of each podcast.
[00:35:05.240] – Allan So Ras, thank you for being here today. Thank you for being a part of the podcast. I'm really excited for the direction we're going and just really excited to be working with you.
[00:35:14.420] – Rachel Thanks, Allan. Thanks for inviting me. I'm looking forward to this new opportunity. I really appreciate it.
Patreons
The following listeners have sponsored this show by pledging on our Patreon Page:
On this episode of the 40+ Fitness Podcast, we're going to have a conversation with John Assaraf author of the book, Innercise: The New Science to Unlock the Brain's Hidden Power, and creator of the free online workshop Brain-a-Thon. We will learn about how you can train your brain for a better life, including positive changes in body composition, fitness, relationships, and career.
SPONSOR This episode is sponsored by Usual Wine. There are times you don't want to open a whole bottle of wine. Usual Wine solves this problem with single-serve, “heavy pour” bottles. Use the discount code FITNESS for $8 your first order.
Brain Experts used to believe that by the time you turned 40, you were hardwired to be who you are, but brain research is showing that when you train your brain you can change it. The term for this is neuroplasticity. John shows us that you can even train your brain for greater success in health and fitness, and any other aspect of your life. And he does it without getting you all buried in all these complex neuroscience concepts.
Since recording our conversation, I've gone on to attend John's Brain-a-Thon and it was fantastic. I've also signed up for a couple of his other programs and I've gotten so much from them. He's really pushed me to get out of my comfort zone. I'm creating better daily habits, such as doing Innercises every day now to train my brain and the positive changes I've gotten have been awesome. The book and the workshop are fantastic resources.
John Assaraf is one of the leading experts on creating a positive mindset and a calmer brain. He has appeared numerous times on Larry King Live, Anderson Cooper, and The Ellen DeGeneres Show.
John has built 5 multimillion-dollar companies, written 2 New York Times Bestselling books (Innercise is now his third), and has been featured in 8 movies, including the blockbuster hit “The Secret”.
Today, he is the founder and CEO of NeuroGym, a company dedicated to using the most advanced technologies and evidence-based brain training methods to help individuals and corporations unlock and ignite their fullest potential. And if you didn't know he was nearly 60, you'd swear he was in his late 40s, early 50s.
You can listen to the podcast on the player above or read the transcript below. If you hear/read something that resonates with you, please share it on social media. Thank you!
Transcript
00:03:07.080] – Allan John, welcome to 40+ Fitness.
[00:03:10.780] – John Thanks, Allan, great to be with you
[00:03:12.700] – Allan Now I got your book, Innercise: The New Science to Unlock Your Brain's Hidden Power, and, you know, I've read a lot of books and I've read a lot of books about the brain and about neuroplasticity. This was probably the most practical book on neuroplasticity that I've ever read.
It was not just the theory of this is how the brain should work or should fire, this was set Innercise, exercise for your brain that actually makes this stuff happen. And, you know, you said in the book, don't do all of them at one sitting because it's too much. But I found myself as I was reading, trying to do them.
Yeah, it was exhausting when you got to the beach one, it's funny because I um, that was just a meditation I started doing for myself to fall asleep if I woke up and I was feeling anxiety and I would just imagine myself walking down a beach. And so it was just it was interesting. You started going through that. And I was watching it and reading and it was like, oh, goodness, I had to go take a nap.
I was like, so relaxing and so awesome. So, again, I really enjoyed the book. And then I went on to even go do the Brain-a-Thon, which again, was awesome. So thank you for that. I appreciate sharing that. I really appreciate you being here today.
[00:04:41.960] – John Thank you. The book Innercise was all around when I came to the realization that I have and everybody who is with us today has a trillion dollar brain, but we weren't given the user's manual for it. And, you know, everybody knows that I could exercise to build up my cardiovascular system and to build up my lung capacity and to strengthen my muscles if I want to exercise. But what about our brain, the greatest neuro muscle and bio-computer in the whole universe?
[00:05:18.320] – John What are some techniques that we can use to get our brain to work better and to get us to focus more, to create empowering habits, to let go of stress or anxiety or uncertainty or fears that hold us back? What about that? And for many, many years, I've been practicing the mental and emotional techniques that I laid out in Innercise and actually give people the audio, enjoyed it and have a great dialogue about it.
[00:05:49.160] – Allan Perfect. So in the book and I think this is where it clicked for me to understand this, is that I work with a lot of clients and they're trying to lose weight and they're trying to get fit and trying to get healthy. And for some of them, it just seems so hard.
[00:06:08.340] – Allan And, you know, they struggle and they struggle and I'm like, you know, I know you want this. I know you're committed to this, but it's not happening for you and we've got to break that down. And you use this term cohesion and dissident's kind of talk about one of those kind of things that holds us back that we're not even necessarily aware is happening. Can you talk about that?
[00:06:30.130] – John Sure. So, listen, we all develop our habits, right? We have habits the way we think on a regular basis. We have a habitual way of feeling. We have behaviors that lead to our results. So when we understand our brain just a little bit better and we understand that every one of us is already one hundred percent disciplined to our thoughts, our emotions, our feelings and our behaviors. And so changing is hard if you don't have the right process. So whenever we're looking to change our eating patterns, when ever we're looking to change how much activity we get in the day, whenever we want to change, how much sleep we get when ever we're looking to change our own self image of ourselves, which is something we've had for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, that requires understanding.
[00:07:32.140] – John How do I make change easier not easy, but easier. And this is where most people have an issue. It's not in the intention or the goal that's the problem. It's what happens after that that's the problem. And so when we understand that our brains all work identically, every human beings brain works identically and our brain works on a couple of principles. So let me give you a couple of these principles.
[00:08:04.570] – John Number one is any time that our brain experiences a change, a change in our behavior, a change in our diet, a change in our exercise, our brain goes, hey, what's going on? You're using energy and our brain wants to conserve energy. So anything that is going to use up more energy the way I think or behave, our brain is going to go what's going on here? And it's going to resist. So that resistance is our brain wanting to move back into its comfort zone. Right. Just like a thermostat is meant to keep temperature in a room at a certain temperature that's set in the thermostat. Our brain wants to have you keep the same settings. You're awake, you're eating your exercise energy expenditure. That's one.
[00:08:55.320] Number two, whenever our brain feels that there might be real or potential pain or discomfort, it says, hold on a second here. I don't want to feel any pain or discomfort. Well, guess what? Changing our diet is considered uncomfortable to our brain, starting to exercise, even though it feels good to do it, it also means we might have muscle soreness. It also means that we might have aches and pains, etc.
[00:09:23.170] – John So our brain is trying to resist anything that's going to cause us pain or discomfort or having less than what we had before. So understanding that these are natural mechanisms of our brain, we can start saying, OK, are there some techniques that I can use to make this easier versus easy? And the answer is yeah, there's a lot of techniques that we can use to re-commit to reframe things. So first thing that I share with people who want to lose weight, first and foremost, stop thinking of what you need to do is losing weight.
[00:10:05.680] – John As soon as our brain thinks of losing anything, it resists it. Why? We're always taught to find what we lose, find what you forget. So what if we instead said, OK, what do I really, really want? Is that weight that I want to lose or is it fat that I want to release? Right. So if we think about body weight as extra calories, extra energy, what we want to do is we want to release that energy and use it.
[00:10:34.390] – John But that's really not what we're looking to do. You know, the reason we want to, I'm going to use a term that I don't like to use is lose weight, is not for the losing the weight. It's for how we're going to feel about ourselves. It's for the love where we're seeking. It's for the self belief about ourself that we want is for the lifestyle that we want its for the energy that we want. And so what if we instead of focused on losing weight, we focused on what's the lifestyle that I want?
[00:11:09.830] – John What are the benefits of that lifestyle, instead of focusing on what I'm going to have to give up, what am I here to gain by doing this? Instead of focusing on a diet, why not focus on a new way of eating as a new way of being. The very fact that, you know, the word diet, the first three letters are die? OK, dieting is hard, but figuring out a meal plan, a way to eat that sustains me that I could that I could keep doing past one week or three weeks or six weeks, that's a totally different focus.
[00:11:52.970] – John Now, most people try to lose weight and they say, OK, I'm going to lose 10 pounds with 20 pounds or thirty pounds or fifty pounds or whatever the amount is, and they alter their behavior until the point of reaching their goal, and then they revert back to all of the old behaviors that got them to gain all the weight. So instead of having their brain focusing on the behaviors and the way to be for losing weight, why not say, nope, let me make a lifestyle change that will empower me or make me feel better for the rest of my life instead of for a week or two or three.
[00:12:30.530] – Allan And so what you're basically doing is you're kind of getting cohesion between what the body wants, which is to be what the subconscious brain wants it wants to be able, wants to have adequate energy. It doesn't want the knees to hurt when you're walking up and down the stairs and losing weight as it will, we would think about that logically. The words we use is doing that. But you're using the term release, which is a very different thing than the losing.
[00:12:56.300] – John And the other thing that we need to understand is water is weight. Muscle is weight, we don't want to lose weight, you could lose two, three, four, five, six pounds of water and weight in a week. But you're going to get it all back. You can have one dish of pasta or rice and it retains two and a half times its own weight and water and gain it all back. So what we want to do is we want to activate fat release so that we use our fat stores as energy. And that's really what we want to do.
[00:13:33.130] – John We want to create an environment within us so that the food that we're eating gives us energy and what it is that we're doing for basic survival needs but then through hopefully a little bit of exercise, we are using fat as fuel for the energy requirements that we need. And we create initially a slight imbalance between how much we're consuming and how much we're using.
[00:13:58.340] – John And in doing it slowly instead of fast and really focusing on fat release and sustainable weight release or weight loss, if that's what we want to call it. Now, we're looking at a totally different game and we're not looking at going on a diet which is is really detrimental to a lot of people's heads and hearts because they suffer these, or they gain these high wins and then they suffer these lows by gaining all the weight, which happens for ninety seven percent of people.
SPONSOR This episode of the 40+ Fitness Podcast is sponsored by Vault Health, guys, we need to discuss the elephant in the room. Most of us really struggle to manage certain health issues, especially when it affects things we don't want to talk about, like our libido and vitality. Yes, I'm talking about Low-T. Did you know that 40% of men over 40 suffer from Low-T? Low-T can cause weight gain, loss of muscle mass ED, fatigue and poor sleep, low energy and depression.
These completely dismantle any efforts you're making to be healthy and fit. If you're dealing with one or more of these. It's worth booking a free online consultation with a Vault physician at 40plusfitnesspodcasts.com/vault. Vault is all about discretion. After your free consultation, and you agree you want treatment, they'll send a phlebotomist to your home to do a blood draw. You'll get a personalized doctor review treatment plan. This can be with pills, cream or injections.
The medications are mailed to your home. There's nothing macho about neglecting your health. If you live in the United States and you're struggling, it's worth learning more at Vault Health, go to 40plusfitnesspodcasts.com/vault today.
[00:16:03.350] – Allan Now, when you're talking about exercises, I mean Innercise excuse me, know, one of the things that you brought up there was there's lots and lots of different ways to Innercise, much like with exercise. So I could I could decide to go ahead and do an aerobics class where I can go lift weights or I can go for a run or I could go skiing or I could go hiking.
[00:16:22.220] – Allan There's so many different ways that I could exercise to affect different things balance, mobility, strength, endurance. It's much the same way with innercise. But there's about seven key areas that you identified in the book that we can innercise to benefit ourselves. Can you talk about those?
[00:16:38.670] – John Sure. So let's just take the, you know, the self-image side of our brain. Everybody knows that they have a self-image of themselves. And so if I was to ask you to draw yourself out or to write down what you feel you look like, would that either visual or written description match the way you want to look? And for most people who are maybe overweight, there's a mismatch. What if I said that if you, for example, went to some magazines where they had people with your type of physique that you want to have, those realistic. What if you cut out a picture of a physique that you wanted and you took your own face and you put it on top of that picture.
[00:17:35.730] – John And what if every day you looked at that picture and you started to see yourself moving towards that over a period of time, whether it's one month, three months, six months or one year? You said this is the body that I'm going to have. This is the body that's giving me energy. This is the body and physique that's going to make me feel the way I want to, look the way I want to. What if you start to just visualize that every day?
[00:18:01.650] – John What if you started to emotionalize what would it feel like to actually be in that body? What would happen is you would start to develop a new self-image that would override your old self image. It's almost like recoding software on a computer. Your self image is nothing more than cells in your brain of recognition of what you have seen in the mirror ten thousand times and what you have thought about a hundred thousand times.
[00:18:34.000] – John And so when we start to use, for example, visualization, visualization is a simulation. When we start to simulate in our mind's eye on a new body, the new energy, how we will feel, the complements we might get, the things we might start seeing to ourselves about ourselves, we start to rewrite our own hidden self image and overlay a new self image around that.
[00:18:59.830] – John And when we start using innercises, whether it's verbal analyses or emotional innercises or mental innercises to activate cells in our brain and then reinforce those cells and patterns in our brain, we know that whatever we do consciously, repetitively over time becomes an unconscious pattern. And so we can use a variety of different innercises to rescript, reshape imprint what it is that we want instead of what is.
[00:19:36.410] – Allan Yeah, so, you know, the way I kind of look at it and you said something really important that I want to go back to is realistic, you know, don't don't sit there. I can't pull out, you know, you know, say Arnold Schwarzenegger and put my face on his body and say, you know, when he was at his prime and say, that's what I'm going to look like in a year or two, that's not realistic. But if I do find, you know, a body body style, I think that's going to fit me, and I begin to think of myself in those terms that's going to affect my subconscious, which is going to then affect my behavior. And make me start doing the things that are necessary to have that body type.
[00:20:13.650] – John Absolutely. There's a visual that I like to share with everybody just to show them how this can work. I'm going to ask everybody who's listening right now a question. And the question is this. Can you slowly jog a marathon right now?
[00:20:32.300] – John And I work out almost every day, and I cannot right now. Like I'm not in shape to jog a marathon 26.2 miles. Now, here's the second question for everybody who's listening, as if we agreed today that a year from now or 18 months from now or even two years from now, we're going to jog slowly and healthy and a healthy way, a marathon, 26.2 miles. And today all we did is we got from a seated position and stood up and then sat back down.
[00:21:07.640] – John That's all we did today, maybe five times during the day. And then tomorrow we did it five times and the next day we did it five times. And we figured out what would be a really good eating plan for energy. What would be a good little movement plan for flexibility and some balance. Could we maybe in a week, if we were sedentary for the last five years, could we maybe walk in our apartment from the sofa to the kitchen? And the answer is probably yes.
[00:21:35.640] – John And then once we did that five or 10 times, could we walk outside maybe a tenth of a mile slowly. And then could we walk two tenths of a mile, then can we walk five tenths of a mile, then can we walk one mile, if we did it in a healthy way? The answer for almost every single person is if I started off that slow, yes, I could do it.
[00:21:57.850] – John Well, let's take it out to three months. Could we get faster, stronger, better in three months and build a foundation? Yes. Well, what about three months later? What if we hired a professional to help us get in better shape? And then we started to slowly once we release the weight, once we felt more comfortable, we started having more energy. Maybe at a certain point we needed to do a slight, very easy job. Could we do it? The answer is, of course we could.
[00:22:29.880] – John Well, then guess what? If we could do that, could we build up the muscle and the endurance as we got stronger, as we release the weight? Could we possibly in a year or a year and a half or two years slowly jog a marathon? And the answer is yes, and how do we know that we know that because millions and millions and millions of people start off just that way.
[00:22:54.350] – John So even though we may not see the end outcome right now and even though we don't have the knowledge or the skills or even the resources to do it, could we gain the mental and the emotional and the physical fortitude to be able to do it if we committed to it? And the answer is yes. We have all the knowledge, the skills of how to do it right now.
[00:23:19.460] – Allan Yeah, you've just described how I trained for a Tough Mudder. I was in no shape to even consider doing a Tough Mudder. I could do a 5K obstacle course, I couldn't do a 13 mile one. And so I was I was watching the videos of the people that were completing it and they were doing it. And I was like, OK, that guy has a grip strength. That's how he's able to do what he's doing, that person stronger.
[00:23:41.990] – Allan That person isn't carrying as much body fat. And so the visuals I had in my head was a person is doing that. That's not me today but that will be the day that I do that race and I committed by signing up for it. I wrote my check, you know, give my credit card number. I got the ticket for my daughter and I. And so the commitment was there.
[00:24:02.110] – Allan And what that meant was each day was, OK, I've got to get my grip strength a little stronger. If it's just hanging from a pole, you know, a pull up bar, that's how I'm going to start getting my grip stronger. And then I was doing pull ups and then I was doing, so it's just a progressive thing over time. And it's those little bitty things like if you put a penny in a jar every day and then and then after two weeks, double it and put two pennies and after two weeks double it and put four pennies. After a while, you realize you basically have your retirement taken care of. It's that kind of building that you get out of all of this.
[00:24:35.320] – John Yeah, and whenever you're looking to, you know, to change from one habit to another, from a destructive to constructive, from disempowering to empowering, there's something that I teach all my students and that is reduce it to the ridiculous. So reduce whatever it is that you need to do or want to do to the ridiculously small. Right, and so one minute a day, two minutes a day, three minutes a day, five minutes a day for 100 straight days builds the habit.
[00:25:09.270] – John Once we have the habit, we can build the intensity and the duration. And so instead of trying to do everything in the first week or two weeks, why not focus on I'm going to develop empowering, constructive habits that I'm going to stick to instead of something that's not sustainable. And so when we're thinking about our brain. Let's understand how it works and our brain resists big changes, our brain resists anything that takes a lot of time and energy.
[00:25:44.790] – John And so when we want to develop a habit of this is what I would like and I'd like to sustain it, let's reduce it to the ridiculously small so that I can develop the habit that I can add layers afterwards.
[00:26:03.750] – Allan Now, one of the things you went into the book, and I think it's it's really important, is that if you don't set a goal the right way, your likelihood of accomplishing that goal goes way, way down. But you talked about a function of something called brain friendly goals. Could you go into that briefly?
[00:26:20.910] – John Sure. So it actually piggybacks on. What I just said is there's different parts of our brain. If you think of your brain almost like an orchestra or a band, you know, there's different musicians who play different instruments. Well, there's different parts of our brain that does different things and when we can get our brains, different parts to work together in synchronicity and harmony, it works a lot better. So, for example, there's a part of our brain I called the Einstein part of the brain.
[00:26:52.320] – John That's really good for imagination. What I would like, what it would feel like and be like and how can I achieve it. All right. There's another part of our brain which I call is the Frankenstein part of the brain that is analyzable. What can go wrong here? What if you start and you don't continue? What if you get hurt? What if you embarrass yourself? Or what if you're ashamed or ridiculed or judged because you give it your best and you fail?
[00:27:18.810] – John So our brain, in order to make brain friendly goals, works like this. What do you want to achieve? Write that down. Why is it really important for you to achieve it? Write that down. How can you get started? OK. Write that down. When are you going to do it? Put it on your calendar. What are the tools or resources or people that you need in order to help you get that all together? That's a brain friendly goal because now I have the what, the why, the how, the who, and the when, and our brain goes, OK, are you committed to doing this or are you interested?
[00:28:02.400] – John And this is the question of all questions I have, because when somebody says, here's what I want, I always ask them, well, are you committed to that or are you interested? And many people say to me, what's the difference? I tell them, what if your answer is going to cover stories or reasons or excuses, why you can't or why you won't if you're interested, you know, when it's time to do it, you're going to come up with a story, reason or excuse.
[00:28:26.370] – John But if you're committed, you will overcome the story, the reason, or the excuse. If you're committed, you'll do whatever it takes. If you're committed, you will override the “I don't feel like it.”
[00:28:39.540] – Allan I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest and happiest you can be? What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?
[00:28:47.220] – John Well, number one is, what does it mean for you to be well? Right? How are you thinking? How are you feeling? What are you doing? Whose life or whose whose life is impacted other than just yours? And so whenever we think about wellness and well-being, define it for yourself. Define it for yourself. For me. Tell me, how do you define success? For me success is harmony between health, wealth, relationships, career, business, fun experiences, charity, spirituality. For me, it's that harmony. That's success. It doesn't make sense for me to have so much health, but not wealth, so much wealth, but not health. So for me, it's that harmony. So that could feel like my life is in flow.
[00:29:43.520] – Allan OK, thank you, John. If someone wanted to learn more about you, learn more about the book Innercise: The New Science to Unlock Your Brain's Hidden Power and all the wonderful things you're doing over there with your company, where would you like for me to send them?
[00:29:56.420] – John Thank you. I think they can hop onto Amazon to take a look at my book Innercise or my other book Having It All, which is also New York Times Bestseller (also available on Audible). They can if they want to go deeper into the brain around making more money and to financial success. They can go to brainathon123.com. I'm on Instagram. I'm on my Facebook fan page. I'm on Twitter. And then obviously our websites JohnAssaraf.com or myneurogym.com, which is my company.
[00:30:31.220] – Allan Yeah, I did the Brain-a-Thon this weekend. I made it about three quarters through and I just a lot it was wonderful. And then I just joined your Exceptional Life Program, so I decided I'm seeing a lot of you lately, but yeah some really cool stuff. Thank you so much for being a part of Forty Plus Fitness.
[00:30:51.660] – John Thank you my friend. Thank you so much for doing this.
Patreons
The following listeners have sponsored this show by pledging on our Patreon Page:
The following listeners have sponsored this show by pledging on our Patreon Page:
Judy Murphy
Randy Goode
Debbie Ralston
John Somsky
Thank you!
Hello. This is going to be a solo episode and it's going to be slightly different than most of the other solo episodes that I've done. I want to start this one with a quote, I'm reading a book for an upcoming podcast episode. Really looking forward to talking to this guy and I know you're going to get a lot out of that conversation, but he has a lot of quotes in his book and this is one that just really resonated with me at this point in my life.
“It is easier to provide wisdom to others than to ourselves.”
~ Francoise de la Rochefoucauld.
Now the reason this one kind of hits me in the gut is, you know I've been doing the health and fitness thing for a while now that the podcast has been going on for over three and a half years. This is episode 390.
So I've had a lot of conversations about health and fitness. I've had a lot of solo talks with you about health and fitness and you know, I feel like I know my thing, but just to be bluntly honest, over the course of the last couple of months I haven't been doing things for myself the way that I preached to you that you should be doing for you. And so, you know, I effectively call this my slide and over the course of the last couple of months I've kinda been on this slide and there are a lot of things that I could put out there and say, this is why it happened. This is the cause, you know, when this goes away then things will get better. But I need to go ahead and address this. And in addressing and going through the mental processes of, okay, getting myself mentally ready to change this, to solve this problem.
I've come across some things that I think would be valuable to share with you. So I'm going to take this step back and kind of talk about what's been going on over the last few months to kind of set the stage for where I am right now. As you know, my wife and I decided to move down to Panama. We put the house on the market in December thinking it would sell fairly quickly. It was a hot market. Everybody is telling us our house was in a prime location. Everybody would want to see it so we didn't expect the house to stay on the market very long. And we planned our trip to travel down in February, but unfortunately the house did not sell before February. In fact, it's still on the market, which is this little concerning. But you know, it is what it is. We just have to deal with this.
But we decided to go ahead and go back to the United States to get it to get better organized because we were afraid if someone came in and wanted to close, we'd be running into a time crunch of getting movers in, getting cleaners in, getting everything organized. So we wanted to do a few things to get organized for a move. To make it a little bit easier for us when the time does come. And then we also wanted to get our dogs. We had two dogs, Joe joe is our Chihuahua and Angel is a German shepherd. We wanted to get them down here to Panama with us cause we miss them a lot. And so we traveled up there to do some work on the house to pack up some things, you know, dealing with the movers, getting all that organized.
So about 99% of the things that we had in the house had been moved out into a storage. And we are going to figure out what we want to keep and what we want to get rid of over the course of the next several months. Unfortunately our oldest dog, Joe joe the Chihuahua, had kidney failure and we had to put him down. So it was a very difficult few weeks at home. Then we did manage to get Angel down here. But I can tell you transporting a dog from one country to another, is extremely difficult. You have to follow a very meticulous process and if you mess it up, they could send the dog back. And so it's kind of expensive to make sure that you've lined everything up. We hired professionals to make sure that it all worked out and we got her here.
She's happy and settled in. So that's, you know, that's a good relief that that's happened. And then of course you probably know that I bought the gym and so I bought a local gym here and I've been putting a lot of sweat equity and time into, you know, getting the gym back up to a better standard. I've been buying equipment, getting the place painted and cleaned. So there's been a lot of work that's been being done that's kept me kind of busy, you know, keeping that up, keeping the podcast up. And then of course, serving my clients and, you know, just trying to be the resource that I need to be and do the things I'm supposed to do. Unfortunately, like I said, over the course of that time, I let myself fall back into old habits.
I let myself become less than who I thought I should be. And I'm very disappointed in myself.
I have a very high standard for who I am. And I'm not walking the talk, you know, I'm not doing what I'm telling you to do on a day to day, week to week basis, and that's very disappointing to me. I'm disappointed in myself. Now I can continue to sit and wallow in this self pity aspect. I can continue to be mad at myself and in the end that would not solve my problem. You know, my problem is I've kind of used, I'm doing these chores and moving equipment around, I'm doing this stuff as thats my exercise when it's not adequate. I've been avoiding, you know, worrying about what I'm eating for the sake of convenience of, you know, freeing up time if I'm not shopping for healthy food, which is not a big, big deal.
But I can tell you when I actually do a really good shopping trip here, it requires me to walk to about five different stores to get the things that I want to get good, you know, good healthy vegetables, to get good eggs, to get good meat. It requires me to check out several stores to get the best, freshest foods that I can get. So it's an effort. It's not just a, it's all ready for you to walk into one place and it's all there. And I haven't been doing that, haven't been really focused on that. And I've let that slide. And then from a joy perspective, I'm very happy with my situation here. I've got my wife here, I've got my puppy here. Very, very happy being in the jungle, looking at the monkeys and the birds and you know, living close enough to the beach that I can just walk straight down to the beach and enjoy that.
And then, you know, I love the fact that I have access to and I own a gym. It's something I had thought, you know, and dreamed kind of about early in my life many, many, many years ago. And so it's something that's kind of come to fruition at a perfect time in my life when I'm ready to be a gym owner and it fits with who I am as an individual. So the joint components are there, but I still kept hearing the old voice, the voice I wrote about in the book, the fat bastard. He keeps rearing its ugly head and with the negative self talk and all of that. So I knew I needed to nip this in the bud and I came up with a fairly simple set of steps to describe what I'm in the process of doing.
And I do believe these steps are very effective because they kind of intertwined and finger very well with the GPS process that I go over in the book and that I've talked about on the podcast several times. The first is forgive, then it's action plan, and then it's execute. So the best way I can put this together, and if you think about it in terms of let's say you missed your turn and you should have taken a left and you didn't take that left, and as a result, you continuing down the road and you're now on the wrong road and maybe you've been on that wrong road for a long time. You know, my slide now has only been a few months, but it dovetails with my feasting periods. So it, it actually was not the optimal time for me to have a slide.
So I'm doing this slide and I need to turn this around. What do I do? Well, the first thing I have to do is forgive myself. It does me absolutely no good to continue to talk down to myself, to reprimand myself, to feel bad about myself. For those inactions and actions that I did that were not in my best interest, not in the interest of me being well, not in the interest of me being the person that I see in my vision and not being true to my why. I could continue to beat myself up about that, but I have to I have to finish that. I have to be done with that if I'm ever gonna do anything about this. So the first step is to forgive yourself. And this can often be the hardest step because, you know, we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be perfect.
And that's another reason why I wanted to call this episode, “I Am Human” is that we got to get past that perfectionism. If we want to see progress we really have to sit back and say, look, I'm just a human being. I'm going to make mistakes. There's going to be slides, there's going to be injuries. That's a part of the journey. And overcoming those quickly, getting myself back on track. That's really the best course of action for me right now, which leads us to the second step in this, which is an action plan.
So if we're driving in the wrong direction, it's pretty simple. Look for the next exit so you can turn around, or look for an opportunity to do a u-turn and find that opportunity and take it. So having an action plan, you know, what are the things that I can do to get myself back on track? And I know what they are. They've worked for me in the past. They'll continue to work for me. I need to get myself back into ketosis. I need to get my body moving. I need to start moving heavy weights. I need to do the things that worked for me that have always worked and in everything that's going on for me right now, everything that I still want, my vision and my why are still intact. I've evaluated those again and said, okay, they're still intact. I still want to go where I wanted to go. I don't want to go down this road. So I have to turn this around. And that's where the action plan comes in. Figuring out what you have to do to turn it around and get yourself back to moving in the direction that you want to move.
And then the final part of it is execute. You can write all the plans in the world. You can say, I want to start lifting heavy again, I want to get back in the gym and start doing that thing. But you gotta show up. You gotta go do it again. Now it might mean that you backtracked a little bit. It might mean that you've got to use a little bit less weight. It might mean when you go to do your cardio training you're a little bit slower or the distance you're doing now is a little bit less. That's fine. We'll get back onto that progression, the gentle nudging, all the things that we know work for us. It's time for us to do that. So it's forgive, action plan and execute. So if I missed my term once, I know that I've done that, it's time for me to forgive myself for doing it.
Find the opportunity to turn the car around and then start driving back in the direction I should have driven in the first place. So I hope you took something valuable, but before we go, I wanted to close with another quote that's in that book. Like I said, I think you're going to enjoy this episode that's coming up with Michele. But this one's a little bit longer, but I wanna I wanna go through this.
“Pay attention to your thoughts for they will become words. Pay attention to your words for they will become actions. Pay attention to your actions for they will become habits. Pay attention to your habits for they will become your character. Pay attention to your character for it will become your fate.”
Talmud
That quote means a lot to me today. Since I've forgiven myself, I've set an action plan and now it's time for me to execute.
And what I know is the thoughts that I'd been having are now going to be positive thoughts. They're going to be affirmative. I can get this done. You know, I may pull out my journal and start reviewing that again each morning. Setting my intentions for each day to make sure that my thoughts become my words, my words become my actions. And then you see where the rest of that goes.
If I begin regular actions that put me back on the proper path, then I will begin to develop the habits that will get me there. That will put me back into the frame of mind of being successful and being who I want to be. And that's going to define my character. And then obviously if I'm doing the things that I'm supposed to be doing more often than not, then I'm going to have a much better fate than if I stay on this slide and don't follow through with the process of forgiving, action plan, and execute. So if you're not feeling it, if you're upset with what's going on in your life right now, realize you can do something about it. Follow these steps and they will get you there.
If you didn't take anything else away from this lesson, but this one thing that the journey to wellness is actually not a destination. We don't ever really arrive there. Our lives are gonna be filled with twist and turns. It's going to be field with injuries and slips. And it's gonna happen to all of us and none of us are above being human.
If you're on this path and you're really struggling to one, either forgive yourself, two, to come up with a good plan or three execute. I do want to be a part of that solution and I want to help you. So if you would go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/human that'll take you to my calendar. We can book a free, It's completely complimentary, no obligation 15 minute call. And on the call we can talk about where you are in your health and fitness journey, what help you might need, what decisions you need to make, if you need to forgive yourself, the opportunity to do so, and how to go about doing that and then the plan and the execution. I want to be there and be a part of that solution. If you'll go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/human you can book your call today and we can get you on your path straight away. Thank you.
The following listeners have sponsored this show by pledging on our Patreon Page:
Judy Murphy
Randy Goode
Debbie Ralston
John Somsky
Thank you!
Today we're going to interview a very, very cool guy. I know you're going to enjoy this interview quite a bit because we're going to talk about happiness. As you probably know, if you've listened to this podcast for awhile, I've recently moved down to Panama and so I've been kind of going through a kind of a stage to move and we came back to the states a couple of weeks ago and moved out some things out of our house to make it a little easier to facilitate moving in closing, when someone does actually make an offer. But it's also been a pretty stressful few weeks and try and get that done. Get our dog down here to Panama, which was an ordeal in and of itself. And also sign the contract and by Island Fitness here in Bocas del Toro.
So now I am a proud gym owner of Island Fitness in Bocas del Toro. If you find yourself down in Bocas, please do come by and drop in for a workout. I'd love to meet you.
But again, that's been a very, very stressful time. So I'm, I'm really glad to go back and reflect on that with a this renewed look at what we were talking about today. If there's anything I can do to help you though, I do really want to help you reach your health and fitness goals. It goes well beyond what we do here at the podcast. I'm all in for helping you find wellness and I'm offering a free 15 minute consult, a no obligation, just a free phone call. We get on the conference call line and we'll talk about the things that matter most to you and your wellness.
You can go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/15min and book your free 15 minute consult. That link actually just takes you directly to my calendar so you can just set up the link and nothing else to do. Get on the phone with me and I can try to help you reach your health and fitness goals this Summer.
Tal Ben-Shahar knows the power of happiness. In fact, he teaches courses at Harvard on positive psychology and happiness. On this episode, we discuss his book, Short Cuts to Happiness.
Allan: 02:56 Tal, welcome to 40+ Fitness.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 03:00 Thank you. Thank you for having me here.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 03:28 Yeah. Well, you know, I must say that during those two years I had at much shorter haircut than usual and not just me also my boys. So I took them more often than necessary to the barber.
Allan: 03:40 Yeah. I get it. It sounds like a really cool place that it seems sometimes you just pop in just to hang out. It was, it was really kind of that, that cool of a place.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 03:50 Yeah. You know, in many ways, I saw it as an island of sanity in our crazy busy world, where things are up in the air and everything is virtual. And here was something, a real, authentic, simple, and wise.
Allan: 04:07 Yeah. My wife and I moved to Panama not long ago to try to find exactly what you're talking about. We were, we literally are on an island and yesterday we went to this this farm, it's an organic farm. They do cocoa and coconuts and all of that. So he taught us all about, walked us all over his property it was really cool to just kind of, I guess I would say disconnect, but it really was reconnect because we spend more time online I think then I do offline and that's really kind of a sad statement. But, I do appreciate that you had that opportunity to hang out with Avi and learn even probably more than probably a second book coming I guess is the best way for me to explain.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 04:49 This is a sequel. Yes. I am actually hoping, I must say I'm actually hoping that other people will write sequels. Cause I think maybe the, the most important, one of the most important lessons I learned is that wisdom is a ubiquitous, it's everywhere. For 25 years I've been in academia, you know, still am and most of my primary source for me was the academic research, ancient wisdom. You know, from the great thinkers, from Plato, Aristotle, Confucius and Suddenly I, when once I opened my eyes or ears, I realize that deep wisdom that is there was just a literally in my neighborhood.
Allan: 05:29 And that's what I thought was so cool is you know, one of the things you did in the book, and I'll have to look it up here real quick because I actually, as soon as I read that chapter, I pulled down the book. It's a fiction book is called the Schopenhauer Cure.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 05:44 Yes, by Irvin D. Yalom.
Allan: 05:46 I've downloaded that book that's now on my reading list for the next one because I just thought it was really cool that you were looking and tying these things together from the conversations that having with your barber to a book you may have read somewhere else, even if it was a novel. And just kind of like, I you said it's just this birth of wisdom that you're getting in your, in your local environment.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 06:08 Yes,and what I realized is that the minute I decided to write that book. It happened. When I was having my haircut and I was not having a good day, but I, you know, went for the haircut. 20 minutes later I come out, you know, just looking better, but also feeling better. And that's the moment I said I have to write a book about this guy because I wasn't the only one having these experiences under his scissors and tutelage. And the minute I decided to write this book, suddenly this almost, this whole world opened up. And, uh, every time I went to have a haircut or took my kids to have a haircut, there were more and more pearls of wisdom. It's just about having, you know, opening our eyes, opening our ears to the opportunities.
Allan: 06:55 And that was what again, like I said, really cool because the book opened my eyes to a few things that I guess I, you know, I knew, I think, like you said, a lot of this stuff is there. It's just sometimes it gets buried in us. And one of the first topics that I kind of want to get into because as soon as soon as I read it, I was like, ah, that's it was your chapter on posture and the impact it has on us psychologically if we're not in a good posture.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 07:22 Yeah. You know, the connection between mind and body. And then in the west primarily we don't recognize this connection. And I thought about it when my kid was having a haircut and I saw how Avi essentially straightened his back and suddenly his posture changed. And I could see that psychologically he changed as well. And as soon as he did that, you know, I thought to all the research out there on the importance of posture, showing that, you know, for example, people who walk briskly with their shoulders back and hands swinging are happier. Also if they just fake it. In other words, if you fake walking, cause even if you don't feel, feel that way, you still start walking this way, you actually start to feel better. Or if you put on a on a smile, happy face, even if you initially fake it, you become it over time. So it's the connection between our postures in our psychological state, our external state in our internal state.
Allan: 08:29 Yeah. Since we traveled to Panama, I haven't had a chance to move my studio stuff down and I have this adjustable desks and I've been in this apartment that we rented. It's near town. It's perfectly located for us to learn where things are. But I'm literally sitting at a kitchen counter on a, on a chair and I just realized as I was reading the book, because it's on my computer as well as I was all hunched down and I, you know, closed and leaning forward and I was like, let's try this. I got up, I get up and actually walked to the store and when I got back, it's like I had drank a pot of coffee. I felt so much better. I had so much more energy. And so I think just, just kind of taking that moment when we realize, hey, you know, I'm not open I'm closed and I need to open myself up. I think there's a lot of joy, a lot of happiness and positive vibes that are going to come out of just kind of realizing the body is connected to the mind and vice versa. And they both can be used as tools to help the other.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 09:30 Exactly. So the fact that it's a loop between them in a loop, you know, circular relationship, uh, cycle means that we can start anywhere. We can start by changing our mind. We can start by changing our, uh, our posture. Now the interesting thing is that there is another loop, not an internal loop, but an external loop. In other words, if a, you know, you walk to the store and you know, slouch, looking down, you're unlikely to have interactions with others. Whether when you open yourself, up physically then others are much more likely to respond to you in the same way, which of course will lead to a, to an upward spiral.
Allan: 10:12 Yeah, I know my career is as an intern when I was an internal auditor, I tended to have more of a, like you said, a closed posture at work. And that affected my relationship with everybody at work. You know, they saw me as this scary guy and even though we were on the same team, the, you know, working for the same company it did, it did put off that vibe that I was unapproachable and it's sometimes difficult for me offline now, you know, just dealing day to day with just normal people to have the right vibe. And so I do need to keep myself cognizant of how I'm projecting.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 10:46 Yeah. And you know, as, as you were talking, I'm thinking of something else regarding our life in the office. You know, we spend a lot of time in the uh, in our isoffice sitting down and it's very unhealthy to spend all these, uh, all these hours. Even if you are sitting up on a positive, open posture, just being static, being sedentary is unhealthy. There are doctors who actually are talking today about sitting is the new smoking now. I think there are exaggerating but not much. Meaning there's a lot of research showing just how bad sitting for you know, eight hours, 10 hours a day is for us. And the suggestion is that the rule of thumb is, you know, every half hour get up for, even if it's 10 20 seconds, you know, get up and move around and then go back to sit. This will have an impact both in your psychological wellbeing as well as your physical wellbeing.
Allan: 11:45 Yeah, there was a, there's a lot of people that follow this thing called Pomodoro. Are you familiar with that? No. Okay. It's basically where you have a work and you know you're gonna be sitting in there doing this work task. You set your clock for 25 minutes and you just focus on that one task for your 25 minutes and when the 25 minutes is up, you now have a five minute break to get up, move around to not think about that project, to stare at blue sky, to do anything that would give you some moment of, of rest, some moment of refreshment, and then you can go back for another 25 minutes. And uh, they've found scientifically that people are a lot more, um, effective, a lot more productive following that method.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 12:27 Yes, I can certainly see why that happens. And again, the impact is both psychological and physiological.
Allan: 12:36 There's another important loop that you talk about in the book that I think a lot of us forget and it reminded me of, you know, when you read books like the blue zones and things like that, about how people are living longer and healthier, happier and healthier lives. It's about being connected is like being part of the whole.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 12:52 Yeah. You know, number one predictor of happiness is relationships. There's a wonderful study at Harvard. It was, it started almost a century ago. It followed the Harvard students as well as people from the community around Cambridge, Massachusetts followed them for over 75 years. And, um, what was fun at the end of the 75 years after collecting quite literally millions of data points. What was fun was that there was one major predictor of both health, physical health and happiness, psychological health, and um, and that was relationships. Now the interesting thing about relationships was that it didn't matter what kind of relationships, meaning some people had romantic relationships that they enjoy for, for decades. Others had very close family ties, others had very close intimate friends. Um, professional relationships, it didn't matter, but people who had close, intimate, real, genuine relationships, were both happier as well as healthier. The best predictor. Now, today, you know, you alluded to this earlier today, we're losing this connection because real relationships are being substituted by virtual relationships. And unfortunately, 1000 friends on social media are no substitute for that one, you know, best friend that one or two intimate relationships.
Allan: 14:21 Yeah, it's a 400 square foot apartment right now. So my wife and I have been spending a lot of intimate time together and you know, at first I thought when we first got here, I'm like, you know, we're going to be, we're going to be fighting all the time and I'll say there's been some, you know, some moments, little flare ups here and there, but really I feel much more connected to her, to the world, just having this opportunity to have this time with her.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 14:44 Yes. Um, I can, I can absolutely see that. The other thing though is also, you know, in the best relationships, whether it's the romantic relationships, whether it's friendships, there are disputes, there are disagreements. And there are no sterile or perfect relationships. In fact, a very important part of a healthy long-term relationship is, um, dealing with the conflict to disputes.
Allan: 15:08 Well, when you're in a one little bedroom place together, there's a few, there's a few here and there, but no, really, it's, it's been pretty, it's been pretty awesome. There's another chapter you had in here. One of the things you said about the book that I think's important is these, these lessons are not something you just read through one time and say, oh, okay, I got it and I'm going to follow this. You'd go back to these, I think these are some great lessons for you just have this book nearby. Uh, and when you feel okay, I'm angry, or I'm not connected or I'm not happy, flip through the just the table of contents. I went through kind of an episode earlier this week and I got angry. I just, you know, and so I found myself just very angry at this event. And I went back actually because I'd read this chapter before I went back and read it again. And so that's on anger management and I have to say it did help me kind of put this all back into perspective. And I'm not going to say I perfectly managed that situation, but it's, it's, it is past me now. And so can you talk a little bit about how we can approach anger?
Tal Ben-Shahar: 16:08 Sure. So, you know, if I can tell the background behind that chapter, which was a real fun chapter to write. So, you know, I was having my haircut and this woman just storms into the barber shop, all angry and upset. And Avi asked her, you know, what's up? And she says, well, you know this. And then she used an expletive, this guy, you know, cuts me off, uh, how dare he, and so on and so on. And Avi says to her, you know, I have a, I have a method of dealing with this kind of behavior on other people's parts. And she says, what. And you know, we both both actually thought, you know, he said, I beat him up because, you know, is a strong guy. But no, he takes another other routes. And what he says is that if he's, let's say waiting for a parking spot and you know, the, the parking spot frees up and is this, you know, he's been waiting and as soon as he tries to go in with a car, an SUV cuts him off.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 17:01 And then he said to us, he said, what I imagined then is that a cow cut me off and you know, both of us, you know, just laugh and say, a cow? and he says, exactly because when you're thinking of a cow, you laugh and a, and then you're not angry. And you know, he was, he was actually basically talking about some very interesting research that has been conducted over the last 50 years on emotions. And the basic idea here is that you cannot experience to emotions. Simulatanously for example, especially if they are opposites. Emotions such as amusement, a cow is cutting me off, an anger and SUV cut me off or empathy and anger and therefore introducing some humor into the mix. Actually shift our mindset as well as the set away from away from anger. And, uh, I must say I've been using this very often, not just when, you know, when people cut me off when on the road, but in other occasions, you know, imagining something funny when I tend to be angry or upset. It's very simple. It's, you know, it's even silly, but it's the silliness of it that makes it so effective.
Allan: 18:10 And that's what I kind of liked about it, was it's something internal that you can control. You know, if you recognize that you're having an emotion and that emotion is not the frame of mind that you want to be, and it's not your ideal state, you have this tool click and you internalize the humor, have a little chuckle and then move on about your day.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 18:31 Yes, exactly. And I think the thing that you're pointing to is the idea of, uh, of choice. I have a choice. I have a choice whether to focus on in a big evil SUV or a, or a funny, cute cow.
Allan: 18:47 Yeah. In my case, it's, a person that revokes a contract that I thought was going to be good for us, and then boom, it's gone. And I'm like, okay. And I'm powerless. So there was a bit of anger and then I'm kinda like, well, you know, um, how would I feel if that was a penguin, you know, that I had to prove on the Godrej no, it does. It is what it is. You know, I'm a monkey pees on you here on the, you know, in the jungle and you just, you just keep going. You know, he's just, you know, you don't get angry at the monkey, you know, the, the choice part of it is also, I think, kind of a critical aspect to this whole management of happiness or trying to find happiness. And I wouldn't say so much. You call it shortcuts. None of these are really shortcuts, but they are, they are the most direct path. And sometimes getting somewhere that you want to get is not about going fast. It's actually about slowing down.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 19:45 Yeah. I think that this is, um, this is such an important tip or shortcut you call it in, especially in our modern life when things are so fast, when that, when there is in constant flux of information and uh, and noise and happenings and you know, you, you moved to Panama, I'm, I'm assuming at least to slow, too slow down this frantic pace significantly. Yeah. And the question is how can we deal with the frantic pace and it's in one way is to just, uh, you know, move away, retire getaway from, from it all. The other approach is to find, again what I said at the beginning to find islands of sanity in this crazy busy world and island of sanity can be a going out with a dear friend to dinner and switching your phone off and not being available and really being there with that person or going for a walk once again without technology or meditating, but it's these small breaks that can make a very big difference.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 20:51 You know, one of the things that I talk about a lot is dealing with stress. And you know, stress is a not of an epidemic in the U S it's a pandemic, right? It's a worldwide phenomenon that even Australians are suffering from excessive stress. And the question is, what do you do with the stress? So what, you know, one way to think about it, you said, okay, I want to eliminate it. I don't want stress in my life. The other way to think about it, which is actually better, healthier way to think about it is the stress in and of itself is not bad. Uh, you know, I go to the gym and I lift weights. What am I doing to my muscles? I stress my muscles, not a bad thing. I actually get stronger as a result unless I don't take recovery. You know, if I just lift weights and more weights and more weights than this stress mounts and I get injured, its the same way in life, it's okay to experience stress as long as they are also periods of recovery. And so we need to punctuate our crazy busy lives with recovery, whether it's recovery, as I said, in terms of that meal with a friend or a good night's sleep or a day off at least once a week.
Allan: 21:56 Yeah, that is so important. And I think we, it is hard in today's society to actually like turn off, to leave your phone off, to take a day off because you kind of feel like something's leaving you. You're losing something. There's this fear you're going to miss out on something. And so it is this, to me, this one might be the, the hardest thing to really kind of wrap your mind around is that if you don't recover, then the stress is not good for you. And it's like you said.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 22:25 That's when burn out happens. That's when an injury happens. It is bad for you. And the thing is that, as you said, it's not easy to disconnect. And the reason why it's so hard is because most people in the in developed countries are addicted, literally addicted to technology. And last week I was giving a lecture somewhere in, in Latin America and um, the audience were, um, partners in that particular firms, very senior people and their spouses. So there were 400, uh, couples there. And I said to them, look, I have a question for you. I don't want you to answer it aloud just in your mind. Just think about the answer. And my question was in the morning when you, when you wake up, first thing you open, your eyes do turn, who do you turn to? And then you know, there are chuckles in the room. And I said, do you attend, do turn to your lovely husband, wife, partner? Or did you turn the other way? And it was a rhetorical question. I mean obviously most people turn to the phone first thing when they opened their eyes in the morning, now I said to them earlier. I said, look, this is an addiction like any other addiction. Now imagine if you're an alcoholic, would you have a bottle of Tequila right next to you in bed as you open your eyes? Of course not. Why do we have our phone right next to us when we go to sleep,
Allan: 23:55 Well, I know one answer I always get when I talk to folks about this because I typically won't have my phone right by the bed. I've been fortunate enough to, to know that that's not what I want. But they use their phone for their alarm. They use their phone for a of other things. And so it again, that's what makes it so hard is that you see this, this is a valuable tool, but it's also a problem.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 24:17 Yes. Yeah. You know, I, I hear you. And about a year ago I actually bought myself an old fashioned watch with an alarm clock specifically for that. But I don't need to put the, uh, the phone next to me.
Allan: 24:30 Perfect. Alright, so Tal. I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay? Well,
Tal Ben-Shahar: 24:43 so, you know, the, the first, uh, the first thing is that we need to allow in unhappiness so that we can fulfill our potential for happiness. You know, there's a common misconception that a happy life is a life, which is devoid of a painful emotions. But in fact, there are only two kinds of people who don't experience painful emotions such as sadness or anger or a frustration or anxiety or invy. Two kinds of people who don't experience these painful emotions and they are the psychopaths and dead people. And so experiencing these painful emotions, it's actually a good sign. That means we're not a psychopath and we're alive. The problem in today's world is that, especially given social media where we see others who seem to be happy all the time, uh, we think there was something wrong with us when we experienced painful emotions and we reject them.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 25:36 And when we reject painful emotions, they only intensify. Moreover, when we reject painful emotions were also inadvertently rejecting the pleasurable emotions. So the first step is accepting painful emotions. And by the way, this applies to our mental health as well as to our physical health as suppressing repressing, rejecting emotions is essentially a prescription for not only unhappiness, it's a prescription for illness. So that's one thing. The second thing, physical exercise. So much research on a physical exercise and its importance once again, not just for physical wellbeing, for a psychological wellbeing. More and more psychologists are talking about physical exercises, the wonder drug and so as as little as 30 minutes, three times a week, and punctuate your day to day with the ongoing movement. You know, that's enough. Or I should say that's the minimum we need to sustain mental health and then of course I mentioned relationships is the number one predictor of happiness. Putting time aside. It's also the number one predictor of physical health and finally gratitude. You know, Oprah was right, an attitude of gratitude does contributes to to health and happiness.
Allan: 26:55 I completely agree. Those are, those are really cool. Thank you for sharing. If someone wanted to learn more about you, learn more about your book, Shortcuts To Happiness, where would you like for me to send them?
Tal Ben-Shahar: 27:07 Well, on my website, which is TalBenShahar.com there is access to my books also to my own online programs that are offered to the happiness studies academy. So I'd love people to visit and join.
Allan: 27:23 Okay, well you can go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/386 and I'll be sure to have the link there. So Tal, thank you so much for being a part of 40+ Fitness.
Tal Ben-Shahar: 27:34 Thank you Allan. Thank you very much.
Allan: 27:40 I hope you enjoyed today's episode and if you did, would you please consider becoming a supporter of the podcast? It's pretty easy. You go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/patreon and that will take you to a website where you can actually contribute to the show. There's different access levels that you have so you can get some additional goodies on top of just being mentioned in the show notes or something like that, but even a dollar an episode is, you know, it's not asking a lot I don't think, but I really would appreciate your support if you can go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/patreon and become a patron of the 40+ Fitness Podcast. Thank you.
The following listeners have sponsored this show by pledging on our Patreon Page:
Judy Murphy
Randy Goode
Debbie Ralston
Thank you!
Tammy and I decided to move to Panama as an opportunity to slow down and reduce stress. On this episode we discuss why we chose the sloth life.
Allan: 00:47 Hello. Today's podcast is going to be a good bit different than anything else that I've done on the show. We are actually recording in our little bitty apartment in Bocus del Toro, Panama. So you're very likely to hear the sounds of chickens, cars, kids, music, all kinds of stuff going on in the background with us, roosters for sure. You know, the thing about it is this is kind of our new lifestyle. We're not going to necessarily live in this town as we go forward, but there's going to just be some differences in the way that we live our lives and the things that we let stress us. So I wanted to actually take you through the story of the move to Bocas del Toro and I couldn't think of a better way to even do this show without also letting you hear from my very special guest today. My wonderful wife, Tammy.
Allan: 01:39 And so as we, as we got into this move and, and the reasons we were doing this move, I thought it would be a great lesson for us to have on the show. And there's been some people that have been fairly curious about this move and each time I talk to a guest and I remind them that they're very likely to hear sounds in the background, that they wouldn't hear any normal recording studio, definitely wouldn't have heard in Pensacola where I was recording the show. There's going to be quite a bit of that now, and I think you'll see as we go forward on the show, even during some of my interviews, you're likely to hear some of the sights and sounds of what's going on here, uh, in Bocas town. So I want to give you just a little bit of the history of how this all came about because you may or may not know me that well, you may not have been a longtime listener, but I was in corporate America for over 25 years. And at the end, you know, I was pretty high up in the rankings as far as executives in a business and the business I was in, uh, well, we were on a pretty healthy downturn. And by healthy, I mean straight down.
As a result, the company was doing layoff after layoff, after layoff. And as you can imagine, being the boss of quite a few people, it fell on me to have those, “You're, you're not needed anymore” conversations, and the goodbyes and all that goes with that. So to say that this was a stressful job, I think would just really be an understatement. It was, the stress was almost debilitating. It was something that when my name finally showed up on the list and we finally went through that and I was sitting at my home in Pensacola and it just occurred to me that I really just didn't want to go back.
This was not a financial decision. This was just a, I know that job is killing me and if I go back and do it, I am effectively sacrificing my health for the job. I decided that I wasn't going to do that anymore. I wasn't going to let making an income be something that was going to detrimentally hurt my health. It wouldn't be fair to me, and one, I think I'd be disingenuous to you if that's how I lived my life. And so I made the decision to not go back to work and to effectively figure out a way to make an income.
That's when I kind of ratchet it up and started doing a little bit more personal training. Uh, and I decided to start working on a book. And there's other things that I had in the works, but because of the current state of healthcare in the United States, one of us had to get a job so we could pay for health care. And uh, Tammy was nice enough to take that on. So she did get a job. Uh, just really just for health insurance. There was no other reason for her to have a job. We didn't need her to work. We just needed the health insurance. It was just far too expensive. I think I got quoted $1,600 a month for health insurance, but I'll, I'll let Tammy tell you a little bit about her taking the job, what that did for her and against her and how she felt about it.
Tammy: 04:46 Well, first of all, I didn't work for like, I dunno, five years before that I took a job here and there doing different things just because I was bored and wanted to do something. And then when it came down to where he decided not to go back to work and we need he insurance, because in America you have to have medical insurance. Getting the job was a little stressful, but at the same time I was kind of excited to go back to work, just to get away from Allan because he's in the house all the time. But, um, I took a job that something I didn't know, but it was interesting job. It was just basically for the insurance.
I also met a lot of nice people and had a good time working there. However, I was not really wanting to work, who wants to work really, you know? But the only reason why I didn't want to work with more because of having to have a boss to deal with or having to watch what I say or do. And you can't really be, I wasn't really comfortable, I guess I got used to being at home for the last five years or whatever it was, taking care of the house, the dogs and Allan and doing what I wanted to do. But going back to work, you know, it helped us for for wha, about almost a year. And it was, the insurance was great and then we decided we were watching TV and decided to take it a step further and I'll let Allan go ahead and start that conversation.
Allan: 06:18 So yes, we were watching Netflix and we came across a show called Death In Paradise and it's an interesting show where they take basically a British detective and they put him on a Caribbean island and he's living in this little bungalow and obviously he is a Londoner through and through wearing his suit every day, obviously uncomfortable in the 90 plus degree, 90 plus percent humidity environment. But he's really good at his job and they decided to keep him. And that's what kinda started the series. And we were watching the series as it went through and I think they had like seven series. They went through three different detectives, each kind of bringing a different feel to the show.
What was consistent about it was the, you know, the location, the beauty. And this guy lived in a non air conditioned open shack, basically a little bungalow on the beach, but it was beautiful. It was beautiful and they made it work and they were comfortable they are. And that got Tammy and I to talking about how we could change our lifestyle, we could reduce our stress, we could reduce our expenses, we can reduce our environmental footprint, uh, if we went somewhere and did something like that. And that got us to searching for different places.
Tammy: 07:38 And I started thinking that I was wanting to go to Belize. So he checked out Belize and all Allan got attacked by mosquitoes and not justattacked but like a swarm of mosquitoes. And then we went during the time that the season wasn't very pretty, the beaches weren't very nice. I guess the seaweed came in and it just wasn't as nice as we thought it was going to be. I mean, it is a beautiful country, beautiful place. Not saying anything bad about it in that way, but we really, you know, we're thinking something along the same line. And then I came home from work one day and Allan told me to keep an open mind and he mentioned Panama and I'm like, well, what's in Panama? And he goes, well, there's no hurricanes. And then there's also the Caribbean island. Cause, I mentioned, I said, well, we want to live on the Caribbean. And he said, well there's, there is a Caribbean side and it's Bocas del Toro. He'd been there before with his daughter 10 years ago?
It's changed a lot since then, apparently. And it's changed a lot since we came here in July. But when we got here in July was only here for a few days. And I knew the beauty of it was there and it was very pretty here. And I'm looking at the beaches and just the possibility of living on the water and off the grid, basically, rain catchment and solar for your energy and power and with lights. And why not go for something different and do something in a different change in life and uh, get out of our comfort zone and make an adventure of it.
So we decided to open this up, this idea up to a Panama and we've been here for almost a month over just over a month and make it, making a lot of new friends, and people here are very nice. The culture is different, just the Indian villages that are around. It's been an amazing month so far and we've learned so much about the people here. Um, and the expat community as well. And then, um, you know, we, we decided that this might be where we want to be. So we've been looking at places here to make a footprint here for ourselves.
Allan: 09:48 Yeah. One of the cool things about Panama is that they, they make it fairly simple. And I say fairly cause it's, it's not actually simple, but it's much simpler to be an ex pat and live here to get your residency here, uh, than it is in a lot of different countries.
Allan: 10:04 Not simple, but, uh, with some help from an attorney and you got through a process. They do want investment here. They do want people here. Uh, so they do value, uh, ex pats and, and they make it, uh, make it a way for you to get here. And as long as you prove that you're not going to be a draw to their society, you're going to help improve their society, they're very much amenable to allowing you to have residency here. So we're currently working through that process.
I am actually looking at buying the gym here. There's a gym on the island and I'm in negotiations with the current owners, to sell me their shares in the company. And, so I will be a gym owner here. And we'll be living what we refer to now as our sloth life. And I know, you know, the term sloth often gets a lot of bad reputations, but if you see a picture of a sloth there, they're pretty damn cute with the exception for the claws.
Allan: 11:03 They'll slowly claw your eyes out. But uh, anyway, the sloth life in my opinion is this, this concept of finding the right size for you, finding the place and finding the people and finding that connection, the thing that's going to give you the lower stress level give you the more connectedness to not just the people, but the place.
Tammy: 11:29 Just slowing down a little bit even in life and not having to rush and worry and think about everything that's going around it's just, it's just stressful with regular life like that and living this life life is what we're calling our slough life is being laid back more and relaxed and, and just living at slow walking down the street slow and taking things a little slower. We don't need to rush through life. Life is here us to enjoy.
Allan: 11:55 And so that's, that's kind of this concept of 2019 for me. Uh, and for Tammy is how do we find that place where we have that connectedness where we have this, uh, this more relaxed environment and where we're able to basically just be, be ourselves and not worry about punching a time clock, not worried about the deadlines at work. Uh, be our own boss. Um, so that we can make what we need to make and be who we need to be. You know, if you've read any of the studies on the blue zones and people living the longest in the world, they live in places like this. Uh, they live in places where they walk, they eat locally grown foods.
Tammy: 12:36 There are no fast food restaurants here. Thats a great thing!
Allan: 12:41 And don't bring any please. Uh, yeah, there are no fast food restaurants here. There's some really nice restaurants here with really fresh food, so it's a really cool place to be. It does have water catchment for most of our water, and you know, a lot of the places are completely off the city grid um, so the electricity is generated by solar. So there some feel good about that. And uh, you know, the, the island is looking at recycling programs and a lot of other things. A lot of self sustaining places are building up around here. So it's, it's, it's becoming a really cool, cool thing.
Tammy: 13:14 We should probably back up a little bit Allan about Bocas del Toro. Where is that? What it is? It's an archipelago of nine big islands, I believe with a bunch of little islands all around it. And we're in the main island of Isla Colon in Bocas Town right now and the other islands where we've been trying to explore a few of the other islands around us as well, there's so many islands out there, there's no way to explore them all, but we would like to try and do that. So anyway, Bocas del Toro is just an archipelago of islands out here. For any of you who were curious.
Allan: 13:51 Yeah, it's not the easiest place to get to because you have to connect in Panama City. And you actually have to fly out of a different airport if you were coming in from the international airport. So there's a little bit of a task to getting here, but once you're here, you know, you have access to everything you need for the most part and you find you don't need a lot of the things that you think you need. Uh, but Amazon does deliver here.
Allan: 14:21 And so I talk about in the wellness roadmap that, you know, as you're looking at stress, uh, you know, probably the best thing you can do for something that's chronically stressing you is to just eliminate it. And I think that's what we've been able to accomplish with this move is I don't have to worry about laying anybody off again.
Allan: 14:42 I can come in and I can run the gym and I can have employees and I can make it fun for them. And I'm the boss of the, boss of the boss. And so, you know, I can make the things the way they need to be, uh, to fit where we are. Uh, you know, Panama as a culture is very laid back and I like that, you could be challenged by it if you don't understand that, that's the nature of the people. But you know, they tell, tell you when you come here, don't think you can change Panama. You have to change for Panama if you want to be here. And so that's really the crux of what this, this move was all about. I know some folks have been curious about it. Uh, I'm glad to be able to get my wife on the show for the very first time.
Allan: 15:26 And this is episode 375. I'll try to get her on this show a little bit more often here and there. But I think the key of it is and the takeaway that I want you to get from this is that you really do have a lot more control over your life than you think you do. We let stuff, we let jobs, we let things imprison us because we have this innate belief that we have to have these things.
We have to order that, uh, that shirt from Amazon. We have to order those shoes, we have to, and so our closet gets full, we put weight on and then we can't even wear the clothes we just bought from Amazon, so we go buy more clothes and those sit in our closet and we know we're going to get into those skinny jeans one day. So we hold on to them and, and I'm just here to tell you that you don't have to be locked into that cycle.
You can make changes. Is it a sacrifice? Absolutely. But the trade offs can be quite substantial. I don't have the income I had before, but I have the life that I want and that to me is worth any amount of money that I could have been paid. So I doubt very seriously that you're going to ever see me in a corporate boardroom again. I have no desire whatsoever to go back to corporate life. I'm going to do my own thing and that means I'm going to be giving 100% to my clients and making sure they get the results that they deserve. I'm going to be giving 100% to this podcast and making sure that I'm bringing on the best possible guests to teach you and give you the information you need to find your health and wellness.
I'm going to be doing the things with the gym and others just to help people here be healthier and more fit. So, My life now is, is dedicated towards wellness. Uh, but not just yours, mine as well. But if there's anything that I can do to help you on your wellness journey, please do reach out. If you go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/15min I'll give you a free 15 minute consult. We can talk about your health and fitness goals. We can help set strategies for what will work for you. If stress is something that's really affecting you. We can talk about strategies for stress management and where you can, I'd encourage you to completely eliminate the stress. I know that's not possible for everything, but you know, I think I can help you get through some of these stressful moments or eliminate these stressful moments through just this little console.
So go to 40plusfitnesspodcast.com/15min and that will take you to my calendar. You can set up a 15 minute consult with me absolutely free, no obligation. I want to help you reach your health and fitness goals. So please do get your free consult. So before we cut out though, I wanted to say bye to Tammy and thank you for being a part of 40 plus fitness.
Tammy: 18:21 Thank you for actually having me for the first time. He's never asked me, by the way.
Allan: 18:25 I haven't. I'll be honest. Yeah, I haven't asked her before this, but I felt like it would just, it would not be the complete story of me telling about the move to Bocus without having you on.
We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it.Ok
