Getting your mind right is so important toward getting healthy and fit. On episode 530 of the 40+ Fitness Podcast, we bring on Jeremy Grater and Zach Tucker, the hosts of The Fit Mess Podcast and discuss their weight loss journeys.
Let's Say Hello
[00:01:19.630] – Allan
Hey, Ras, how are things going?
[00:01:21.690] – Rachel
Great, Allan. How are you today?
[00:01:24.250] – Allan
[00:01:26.950] – Rachel
[00:01:27.950] – Allan
Busy. Yeah. And just a lot of things coming together at the same time and this and that and things outside your control. Things in your control. But I do want to say something. I want to apologize. A couple of weeks ago, I put out an episode I didn't realize my new computer. I put all the settings for my recordings exactly the way they were on the old computer. Didn't realize how bad the quality was until I actually had to do the work to put it together because I got behind. So I didn't send that off for audio processing. I did this one myself and realized how terrible it was and I couldn't fix it. And I didn't have time to send it off or do anything else. I needed to get it published. It's the first time I've missed a Monday published date in over six years. I published it on a Tuesday, and I feel bad about that. But at the same time, it kind of opened up my eyes saying, okay, one, I'm not going to work through the weekend to try to solve a problem about a podcast episode. I'm just not going to do it.
[00:02:34.520] – Allan
Two, maybe Tuesdays are better days for releasing podcasts. Now, I'm not going to do it straight away because I do have a sponsor and I told them I'd be doing these episodes on Mondays. So bear with me as I deal with the sponsor and I get that done. But probably like starting in April, I'm going to start releasing episodes on Tuesday mornings. What that will do is that will give me Monday to get the episode finished up and done. So if I've missed something or need to do something, it's a work day. It's a podcast day. It's when we do normally, we do our recording for things. So I'm going to start making Monday put podcast together day. I don't know that I'll get all the interviews done on Mondays, but I'm going to start kind of trying to push things to certain days to try to make my schedule make more sense. And most of the books, the big books that I have authors on, they publish on Tuesdays. That's a standard publication date for books. Also when they release music. By the way, it's Tuesdays, but so I'm going to start releasing my podcast on Tuesdays.
[00:03:46.420] – Allan
That'll align me with what the publicist and the writers authors of the books like, because the episode will go live on the day it goes and therefore goes into their sales for best seller stuff. If it happens before like pre sales actually don't count towards your best seller status, which is kind of odd. But yeah, what sells that first week is what's going to get you into New York Times. So a lot of them want these episodes live the first week that the episodes out. But I also have a longer tail on my podcast. So I think releasing on a Tuesday will make them happier because I can release on the same date for a lot of these folks if I'm ahead. I think they'll like that anyway. So that's going to be my approach going forward. I'm going to start moving these to Tuesday. It's going to be a hit or miss for the next few weeks, like I said. And then boom, there you go, Tuesday release dates. And I'll try to stay consistent on that because consistency is really important as we'll get into in a few minutes. But how are things up there?
[00:04:50.980] – Rachel
Good. Really good. Well, our weather is a little inconsistent these days, warm and cold, but it's worked out over the weekend. We did our first Maple syrup boil. So up here when the weather is above freezing during the day but below freezing at night, we collect the SAP out of our Maples. And this last weekend we did a boil and yielded almost a gallon, just shy of a gallon of syrup. So we'll be collecting again because the weather continues to be inconsistent and we're going to do another collection and another boil pretty soon. But yeah, and hopefully after that, it might be spring.
[00:05:29.750] – Allan
Good for you. Spring is no different than any other season except for one thing. Except for one thing. And I do have to say this, we're recording this now before this happens. But this episode will go live after it happens is that we don't do daylight savings time here. And so we end up flipping. So the way you have to look at it from our perspective is when we're in the fall. So when we fall back, we end up in Eastern time zone, which means things that I do like client calls with a group and things like that, they're happening for me at 08:00. Well, if you guys will follow me for any amount of time at all, you know that I like to be in bed by nine. That doesn't happen when I have a group call at 08:00, which I do from November to March. And now we're going to do the spring forward, which puts me on central time zone until next November. And I'm so happy about that. I wish at least somebody would just stop doing that. We don't do it here and I'm so glad we don't. Plus, our days and our nights are generally about the same the 12 hours because we're closer to the equator.
[00:06:48.930] – Allan
So it's just kind of one of those things. It's like, okay, every day kind of can be the same if you want it to be. But then, yes, that whole flip flop of the United States. So as you're listening to this, we are now into the simple time zone and I'm getting to bed earlier every night, at least as far as the clock says it is. So, yeah, I'm going to be glad to do that because then I tell my wife it's like, oh, no, it's central time zone, 07:00. I got my call, 08:00. I'm in bed, hopefully.
[00:07:24.510] – Rachel
[00:07:25.530] – Allan
Yeah. So that's my spring. The thing I look forward to with spring as we get back on a time that I'm much happier because everywhere I've lived, I've lived most of my life in the central time zone. I've lived in 13 different States, I've lived in four different US time zones. I'm just happy to be back into the central time zone as we do this, as you guys do this crazy spring forward thing. And I'm sorry you're losing an hour sleep, but make sure you go to bed an hour earlier so you don't actually lose that. And it might be harder to fall asleep, so kind of play yourself into it over the weekend. But yeah, there you go. All right, you're ready to have this conversation with Jeremy and Zack?
[00:08:09.750] – Rachel
[00:08:31.410] – Allan
Jeremy, Zack, welcome to 40+ Fitness.
[00:08:34.690] – Jeremy
Thank you so much for having us.
[00:08:37.050] – Allan
You have the podcast called The Fitness. And I'm assuming again, maybe I shouldn't assume because I've learned my lesson about that in the past. Is that's kind of a build off of the Hotness that we would say, but more related to fitness.
[00:08:51.510] – Jeremy
Your assumption is close but incorrect. It actually was more just a play on how much of a mess it can be trying to figure out how to stay fit mentally, emotionally, physically. And so it was really just more of that trying to share that struggle with our listeners and with our community that we wanted them to know that they're not alone. We're here with them, learning right along with them, maybe a few steps ahead, maybe a few steps behind. But that's what we're there for, to be a resource to people that are going through all this together.
[00:09:18.510] – Allan
Yeah, it definitely gets messy. There's not a lack of information out there. And it seems kind of odd that we have these podcasts where we're putting information out there. But I try to think like, I'm a Sherpa. I've gone up the Hill. And while I can tell you my route won't be necessarily your route, I'm a Sherpa that's willing to go up that route with you again and again and again. And that's why I'm really glad to have the two of you on the show, because each of you have stories about how you change things for yourself. You went from and I'm actually going to call it normal, because being overweight, being obese in the United States is more and more becoming the norm versus the abnormal. And now you've found yourself pushing towards, I guess, no other way to say it, but being the outlier, the one that's in the not obese, not overweight category and actually pushing your fitness up to higher levels. So I do want to get into that. Both of you have really great stories. So, Jeremy, can you kind of start back with your origin story of what you did to fix your fitness, fix your health, fix your mind as you went through this process?
[00:10:37.350] – Jeremy
Yeah, I was definitely one of those guys that sort of needed external factors to make it happen and rock bottom to sort of be thrown at me. It was probably about ten years ago. I was 70lbs heavier than I am now. I was deeply depressed, stuck in an unfulfilling job, and I knew there had to be more, but I didn't know how to get there. And ultimately I ended up doing just like the dumbest knee injury that you've ever heard of. And that led me into a physical therapist office. And that physical therapist said, you should really get on a bike, otherwise your knees are going to just deteriorate and you're going to need to replace them later in life. And that sounded fine and good, but I hadn't ridden the bike since I was eight, so the whole idea of getting on a bike seemed ridiculous. I started talking to my brother about it and he said, look, man, if you want to do this, if you're going to be serious, you just have to decide you're that weird guy that rides your bike to work now, so go buy some cheap bike and start riding.
[00:11:32.500] – Jeremy
And so something about him saying that just about that making a decision totally clicked for me. He's like. And I was like, yeah, I can totally do that. I got on Craigslist within a week I had a bike and I started doing my bike commute and it was amazing how transformative it was because the need to be present in that moment, when you're on a bike, riding through city streets, there's nothing like it to force you to concentrate on the next you're going to die, right? If you don't do this right, you're going to die. And I found this weird peace in that and just, like letting all the stuff, I had no idea how much my mind was just dragging me from thing to thing. And when I was there, that was where I found peace. And I just decided I want more of that in my life. And that led me into my therapist's office. And fortunately, he was a well practiced meditator and he introduced me to meditation and that just kicked open all kinds of doors where I just started finding more and more ways to just be present in the moment, be at peace with who I was.
[00:12:34.020] – Jeremy
And that led to the massive weight loss. I lost 70lbs through a combination of just exercise and keto. And a lot of that came from talking to Zack. Zack was a couple of years ahead of me on the path. And so a lot of the things that I was starting to get curious about, I ended up sitting at a campfire next to him and he was saying, Well, here's what worked for me. Maybe it could work for you too.
[00:12:53.610] – Allan
So, Zach, you are his Sherpa.
[00:12:58.170] – Zack
It is, in many ways.
[00:13:00.930] – Allan
Tell us a little bit about your story.
[00:13:04.170] – Zack
So my story really started the day I was born. I was not set up for success in any way, shape or form. I had a fairly traumatic childhood. I didn't think it was a traumatic childhood. I thought it was normal. But in telling people they're surprised that I'm actually alive or not in jail, just really bad parenting, left to my own devices, no education on how to do anything to the point where when I was 21, 22 years old, I was about 300lbs of my really good friends was a manager at McDonald's. I ate there every single day because it was free. Drink two liters of Mountain Dew every day. Didn't move at all. Just smoked cigarettes. Smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. And one day I got my first real job out of College and my boss looked at me and said, you smoked cigarettes? I would have never hired you if I had known you smoked. And I was like, Whoa, like, mind blown, that's crazy. So I quit smoking. I started running. I started sign up for 5K and that was kind of the start of it. I was like, wow, I can run a 5K.
[00:14:17.050] – Zack
And I started to lose a whole bunch of weight. And then I started running all the time. And like Jeremy was mentioning, when you're running, you're like, in that mode, it's not quite like riding a bike. I know I was a little bit aggressive when I rode my bike in City Street, so I wasn't as worried. But I just started running. The weight started melting off, and then I started working on going, wait a minute. Well, my mind is clear. I like this feeling of being focused. I like this. It's not muddy up there anymore. So I started exploring all the different ways to continue to exercise in a way that would clear up my mind. And then that led me down the path of keto and nootropics and biohacking and all of these things. And fast forward many, many years now, and I'm at a good weight. I'm relatively healthy mentally, emotionally. And like Jeremy was saying, we were at a campfire one day. I was telling him about all this stuff, and that's actually how the show was born. Was we kind of looked at each other and said, guys need to be having this conversation right here. So let's normalize it.
[00:15:28.590] – Allan
Yeah. I mean, things you guys are saying definitely resonates with my story. I consider myself the fat bastard. Hated my job, hated my life, hated everything about it, was overweight, was unfit, and quite literally was just disgusted with myself. And anyone else that would have looked at me would have said, well, this guy has a perfect life. He's got this great salary, he's taking this vacation, he's doing these things. But no, I really didn't like who I'd become. And it was that wake up of, I can't keep going this way unless I'm going to keep going this way. And the end is close. It was almost like, okay, I'm not going to fulfill whatever I was here to be. There's something deeper that needs to go on. And it was being a great dad. It was hopefully eventually being a great grandfather. It was living a life I deserve to live, which I wasn't, despite the income and how good I was doing in my job. And so beyond decision, I had to take even a deeper step. For me, the word I use is commitment, because in a sense, it was not just okay.
[00:16:47.880] – Allan
I decided I'm not going to do something. I mean, you quit smoking, so that's not something you just decide to do. There's a lot more to that.
[00:16:59.570] – Zack
I still look back at that as the of all of the things I've ever had to do in my entire life, that is the number one hardest thing I ever did.
[00:17:09.570] – Allan
And then if your experience was like my experience, once you do that first thing. So the first day, Jeremy, that you rode your bike to work, how far was that?
[00:17:21.020] – Jeremy
The first day I did it. So it was a nine mile ride. The first day I only rode half of it because I just thought, I can't just get on a bike and ride 9 miles. And I was shocked because actually I did really well and after that, I did start doing the full 9 miles, but it was terrifying. It was scary, but exhilarating at the same time, for sure.
[00:17:39.660] – Allan
So you do that first thing, that first hard thing, that first scary thing, and it creates something.
[00:17:45.470] – Jeremy
And that's what I was going to say is that so many of these things that are constantly in the back of our mind, the things that we're waiting for motivation to do that we're going to start doing that thing on Monday. We're going to think about doing that thing on the New Year or whatever, all that stuff. None of it matters. You really just have to decide and take the action today. You can't put it off because if you put it off, you're really just still sitting with indecision. Even by saying, I'll do this on Monday, you're still sitting in the indecision even if you can. For example, this year I hadn't been to a gym in months. I hadn't done any real physical workout in months. I'd done some running now and then. But at the start of this year, I decided that I was going to go to the gym every day and I couldn't figure out when it was going to work. So I got on my calendar and I put in a time to go every day. The whole first week I didn't go, but I took the first step of putting it on my calendar so that I could see and go.
[00:18:40.490] – Jeremy
I'm neglecting this time like I have the time. I have no excuse. The second week I went and I haven't missed a day since because I know I have the time now that I've gone and I feel good, I'm going in with a plan. I know what I'm doing when I get there and everything's falling into place from there. When I take that action, that action leads to another one. I'm eating better because I don't want the work I'm doing there to be for no reason. That's the way that so many of these things work is it's just such a domino. You have to just kick open that first door and you'll be amazed at how many more doors you'll find on the other side that lead to a better, happier life.
[00:19:15.850] – Sponsor
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[00:21:17.170] – Allan
Yeah, I think so many people will sit back and they know the first door they have to kick through, they know the first domino, but there's something holding them back. Can we talk a little bit about how you went through a mind shift change to just really do that? Because quitting smoking or riding a bike in city traffic for most of us, because what we're not talking about is some fit guy who can pedal at the same speed as the cars that can maneuver and do all these things. I mean, you're at this point overweight, not completely comfortable on a new bike you just bought off Craigslist, right? There's something there something has to click in your brain to make that happen. What is that? What was your mindset?
[00:22:15.850] – Jeremy
For me, I know enough about myself to know that I am motivated by external factors. I can sit here and tell myself I need to do this, to be a good dad and I want to live a healthy life and all that. But that stuff is so it's just a figment of my imagination. There's nothing there tangibly that I can hold on to getting on the bike. My mom had just had at least one, if not both of her needs replaced by then. And to hear a physical therapist say, if you want that, keep doing what you're doing. If you don't want that, go buy a bike. And that was scary enough for me. I was shocked into action and I took the action. This year we have our own podcast. We were going to interview Tony Horton, the creator of the P90X workout. I had never done the P90X workout, and I just thought, I have to have some integrity here. I have to have at least done his workout to know what I'm doing. So I went and did his workout for a few days just so that I knew what I was talking about.
[00:23:08.720] – Jeremy
And then it turns out I fell in love with it. I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm going to just do this every day because this guy, I like his speed, I like his tempo. And so that's been pushing me. So for me, I have to look for is there an accountability system? Is there a friend? Can I call Zack and say, hey, Zack, I need you to text me every morning at seven and say, Get your ass to the gym, whatever it is. I know that I'm driven by something external. Something has to be bigger than me. And so I have to find what that is for whatever action is that I want to take.
[00:23:36.680] – Zack
Yeah, I'm kind of the same way. It's the external motivation. But in the last few years, I've been really trying to shift that mindset into external motivation. But for my future self. So my 60 year old self, I'm doing this for him. So I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to go not eat pizza today, even though I work for a company where I get free pizza. So it's really hard. I'm doing all of this stuff for the future me. And that was a good shift for me because I was always external motivated or needed that external motivation in order to get something done. And just pretending in my head of like, all right, when I'm 65, living my retirement dreams, do I want to be stuck in the easy chair that my dad was stuck in? Or do I want to be out exploring, riding my bike, still doing things? Okay, I'm going to be driven for my future self.
[00:24:34.020] – Jeremy
And I want to jump on that too, because I was doing the same thing. I was following that advice that we picked up along the way. And I kept telling myself, Would the future version of me walk by this basket of laundry and just leave it undone with the future of me not do the dishes, whatever things I would normally let slide? And I was talking to my therapist about that, and my therapist reminded me, he said, that's a cute trick. And if that works for you, go for it. But keep in mind, there is no future you that doesn't exist. All that exists is this you. So if that you can do this, then this you can do this. If you can just own that identity that you are now the person who tidies up, who does the laundry, who does the dishes, who goes to the gym every day, who eats well, just own that identity. Put that on every day. Stop worrying about the future you and just know that that is who you are now. And when I think back, that's what happened on the bike. And so the more that I sort of incorporate that way of thinking into whatever challenges I'm taking on, the easier it becomes to do them, because I just own them as who I am rather than it being this thing I have to do.
[00:25:39.910] – Allan
Yeah. And I think kind of a bounce between what the two of you have said is that there is this concept of extrinsic reward or acknowledgment. So you have someone holding you accountable, and then there's this intrinsic drive. And the intrinsic drive is unique to you very much like what you've said, I like having something in front of me that's a big, scary, hairy deal. I'm doing a Tough Mudder. The difference is, the first time I did a Tough Mudder, I was 47 years old. Now I'm 56. So for me, 60 means I'm doing Tough Mudders. It doesn't mean sitting in a lounge chair, hanging out, although I will sit in a lounge chair probably after I do the Tough Mudder because I'm going to be sore as heck. But that said, I'm training towards something that's that. But the other side of it, what I do is I like to take those events, if you will, those kind of those intrinsic scary things. And I like to line them up in a way that is cohesive with who I want to be when I'm older. So when I have grandchildren, we didn't have Tough Mudders when I was younger.
[00:26:56.410] – Allan
We did the 5Ks and that kind of thing. And then as I got a little older, I got into marathons and ultras and lifting weights to see how much I could do that kind of thing. Those were what we did for fun. Now there's Tough Mudders and there's these other types of events, like the Ragnar and those types of things that I'd love to try and do. I don't know what they're going to be doing in 10, 15, 20 years from now, but I want to be able to at least make an effort of doing it. You know, I'm going to be the 75 year old guy that's out there with his grandkids doing whatever crazy little thing it is. And that kind of excites me from a future perspective. So I can kind of get hard to wrap your mind around it. But it's like I'm looking at it from a perspective of what I enjoy doing today, and it aligns with what I know that I'm likely going to enjoy in the future. You're talking about riding a bike and how immediately once you got on it, it became a part of you, a part of driving your whole existence.
[00:27:59.240] – Allan
You ride your bike every day. You were the weird guy who rode his bike to work every day, and then people probably watched you lose 70 lbs. It's like, I probably should buy a bike.
[00:28:10.210] – Jeremy
That is one of the surprising side effects of this whole thing. When you do start taking care of yourself, it is amazing how people suddenly just start asking questions like, oh, wow, what are you doing? What happened? And it's so funny how I've done this a few times. I've been up and down the scale enough to know how it goes. But it's so funny how almost every time it's just that I ate better and I worked out and they're like, oh, that's it.
[00:28:35.830] – Allan
I wanted an easy, but I didn't want to actually have to work for it.
[00:28:39.320] – Jeremy
You didn't just drink some magical drink in the morning and it just melted away. No, of course not.
[00:28:44.080] – Allan
That's what the commercial said on Sunday, the whole 60 Minutes, and then just didn't call that 800 number, which back in the day, that's how Tony sold those on those infomercials on a Sunday. And yes, I actually had it and did it back when it was the first ones and then actually tried to do insanity when it came out. But I was way too old and out of shape. And that left me.
[00:29:15.350] – Allan
Sean, I love the insanity work out.
[00:29:19.130] – Allan
I get it. I tried to be 20 when I wasn't, and my body reminded me. So I felt like I had basically been beat to death by being beat up with a baseball bat while I was asleep. And the next morning I said to call in sick for work because I couldn't get out of the bed because again. No, this was the Fit test. This was just that little test they do at the very beginning. And I'm like, go as hard as you can. Go as hard as you can. I'm like, I'm going as hard as I can. And then the next morning, it's like I can't get out of bed. So there is that. Don't let yourself get over excited. Let your mind understand where you are and start from there. Like you said, Jeremy, you knew potential. You might not be able to ride the whole 9 miles to and fro to do your ride. And so as a result, you had a plan B. And then you realized, okay, I can actually do this. And then you were on it. And I imagine after that, you're probably looking at your time and say, okay, I can get to work in six minutes. I can get to work in five minutes.
[00:30:28.790] – Jeremy
When I got down to like 33 minutes, I was like, awesome, actually, when it was shorter than riding the bus.
[00:30:37.080] – Allan
[00:30:37.410] – Jeremy
That was when I knew this is it. I'm never riding the bus again.
[00:30:41.050] – Allan
There you go.
[00:30:43.310] – Zack
I do want to just say it really quickly, like on the your future self and my motivation. I have actually an example from yesterday that I do think forward of, like, myself 20 years from now, but I also think forward of myself tomorrow and being ready for things tomorrow. I told Jeremy about this earlier, but yesterday I went to a 6:30 workout at a CrossFit gym, and it was a partner workout. So of course, I worked a little bit harder than I normally do. And then my friend is opening up a new gym. So I went to an 8:30 class there and did that. And then I went home and I did manual labor of like fixing a room for like six more hours. And 20 years ago I would have been dead. Like done. And I woke up this morning, I was a little stiff, but I was fine. That's for me, that's where the benefit comes in, like thinking about your future self. I am doing all this stuff so I can be okay tomorrow and I can go do anything that I want, whenever I want.
[00:31:50.290] – Allan
Yeah, well, we're moving the gym and so that's kind of one of the things is the concept of moving weights around, moving these horse mats away 100 lbs and are awkward and just getting those things in place and knowing I'm probably going to have to move them a dozen times to get them where I want them to be. And that's going to be about five days of my life next week. If I've been 47 when I first started this journey, there's no way in heck, there's no way. And then when I actually bought the gym three years ago, about two and a half years ago, actually, I used to do all the deep cleans by myself. So every piece of equipment at gym I would move out of the way, move all those mats out, wash all those mats myself, put all of them back in, put all the weight back on top of it over the course of a Saturday afternoon and a Sunday. And at that point I was a beast. And then covet happened and I came out of covid and I'm like, I'm not quite at that fitness level. I'm okay with where I am, I just have to realize who I am and where I am.
[00:32:53.640] – Allan
And so part of the vision is, okay, I can get back there and I will. But right now, yeah, I'm going to hire strong, healthy people to help me move some of those horse mats and some of those weights because there's no reason for me to try to kill myself to do those things. So it's a balance and it's having the right mindset of knowing what you're capable of and pushing yourself and pushing those comfort zones. And then the other side of it is not going nuts like I did with insanity. Or now maybe going nuts and thinking I can do the whole gym by myself, not going there. So it is a back and forth with yourself to not give yourself excuses and also know, okay, I can push I'm going to go do this work out because this is my friend, I'm going to go do these things around the house because I have those desires and those obligations. So those are really good drivers. And then like you said, you're fit enough, you've set yourself up to be able to do those things. That's really cool.
[00:33:49.750] – Zack
But I know that today is a rest day. I pushed it yesterday, so I went to yoga this morning, and that's it. That's all I'm doing today.
[00:33:59.850] – Allan
And recording this podcast.
[00:34:02.250] – Zack
Yes. The physical exertion of recording a podcast doesn't quite get to me.
[00:34:06.480] – Allan
yeah, I know. I tend to move my hands. So even though you might not see that on the camera, I'm working out here.
[00:34:14.670] – Allan
So we talk about motivation. And every time I see objections to the keto diet, because every year they do the I think it's US News and Roll Report, they do the best diets and worst diets out there. Keto is consistently at the bottom of the list. But I can tell you that I know more people who have lost weight and maintained that weight loss using keto than I do that have used any other diet, period. Even the Mediterranean diet, which I agree is probably the actual the best diet out there. But the keto diet, if you can do it, is really effective at weight loss, and it's not something you have to do forever. I've had guests on I do what I call seasonal ketosis. So I have off seasons and on seasons, some people are keto all the time. You guys use keto as a tool to lose weight. How did you motivate yourself to stick with what most experts would say is impossible?
[00:35:23.370] – Zack
Well, there was a couple of things. One, so I tried keto before Jeremy, I think. Once I figured out that I was not doing keto necessarily to lose weight, it was an added benefit for me, but I was doing it to try and help with inflammation in my body and brain fog and some of those things which were really important to me because my job required a lot of mental work and I just needed to try that. I also set myself up to so Shaunty was coming to town, and I was going to do a live workout. And I also signed up to do a go rock 50 miler star course. It's just a 50 miles of walking with a weight in your backpack. And probably four or five months before I started keto or before that, I started keto with the intention of being keto through all of these events. And so I set myself up like that to keep myself on track because keto, it can be really tough. And all the products that are on the market today that are marked keto are technically keto if that's the only thing you eat for the entire day.
[00:36:34.810] – Zack
But it is tough if you're going to stay in ketosis. If you have one day where you eat more than what your carbohydrates requirement is, you're out and you need a couple of days to get back in. So it is very binary. It's tough to get all of those things. But honestly, it was like meat and vegetables. And I found some really good dairy hacks with some protein powder that was keto friendly as well. So it's definitely possible. But the motivation for me was to find good food that I really liked and just eat the same thing over and over and over again and set something up for later on. So you have a goal that you're marching towards.
[00:37:16.690] – Jeremy
In my case, you know, it goes back to that campfire sitting with Zack, and he was showing me the chart of how much weight he'd lost on keto and some ridiculously short amount of time. And I was like, whatever that is, I want in. Show me how you did that. And so he told me about it, and I thought, well, that sounds insane. There's no way I can do that. Keep in mind, I'm a vegetarian, so doing keto as a vegetarian is nearly impossible. It's not impossible. It's very hard. But I took to heart what he said, and I just sort of broke it down in a way that made sense for me. And I thought, I'm going to just try. I'm just going to limit my carbs to 100 grams a day. Just start there and see what that does to my life. And I immediately was feeling better because just the food choices that I had to make have to be better. And so I don't even know that I ever really went full keto. I mean, I did the test strips, and I was in ketosis in and out. But for the most part, I really just cut out a lot of carbs and introduced a lot more protein and fat to my diet.
[00:38:12.930] – Jeremy
But again, that's the vegetarian. It was tricky because there aren't a lot of options for that. So I was relying heavily on the processed fake chickens and the fake meats to make sure I was getting the protein that I needed. I would not recommend that somebody do that, because we know that all that process stuff is not good for you to do on a regular basis by any means. But anything that just encourages you to eat fewer ingredients and real whole foods is what your body is craving. In terms of the motivation, the motivation came again from the external reward that Zack was dangling in front of me with the weight loss. But it really was how I felt and how the weight came off. And my entire relationship with food changed. There were days where coworkers would be sitting there eating cheese and crackers, and they would offer me some. And in the past, of course, free food, why would I say no? But when I would look at it, it wasn't even food anymore. It just didn't even register as food to eat a wheat then or whatever it was. So again, the motivation followed the action.
[00:39:18.210] – Jeremy
By taking the action, my body went, I like this, do more of this. And I had really no choice but to keep going because that was what my body was demanding of me.
[00:39:27.080] – Allan
So let's take a little bit deeper in that because I think what you said. There is super important. Your body told you, this is good. Okay, how do we open ourselves up to that conversation?
[00:39:44.350] – Jeremy
That, to me, goes back to the meditation topic. Any time that you can set aside every day to just shut the hell up and get out of your own way for a minute is going to just open your doors again, going back to the door analogy. But I just find that in quiet, I find all of the answers that I sit here racking my brain trying to come up with. So whether it was diet or last year, I moved to Canada, I moved to a new country, and I was Hemming and hawing and didn't know what to do. And, oh, man, how do I make this a tough decision? I got kids. Is this the right thing? And I finally just got quiet and just meditated. And I just kept verbally saying, Show me home. And I literally saw the home that I'm in now, like, it just appeared in my head. So that doesn't happen without my meditation practice. That doesn't happen without just taking time to get quiet and just listen to God, universe, energy, whatever your thing is. I don't subscribe to any of them. But there is something in me that gives me the answers, that gives me a path to follow.
[00:40:48.010] – Jeremy
If I can just get quiet enough to hear it.
[00:40:51.310] – Allan
Shut up and listen.
[00:40:53.770] – Jeremy
That's where all the answers are.
[00:40:57.310] – Allan
Zack, I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?
[00:41:06.610] – Zack
Move your body. That's number one for me. I know if I'm not moving in some way, shape or form, everything else kind of crumbles and falls apart. I go to the gym every single day for something. I'll either go for, like shoulder PT or do a full workout or go to power yoga class or something like that. But that is the number one thing for me. And then second is the mindfulness bit, which is why I go to yoga quite a bit. Unlike Jeremy, I can't actually sit still. I can't stand it. So sitting on a pillow meditating, saying, home is not my jam. I can't do it. So I do a lot of gentle yoga classes where you're not moving physically all that much. The whole point is the breathing. It's the meditation, but it's just enough movement where I'm comfortable with it. And then the third thing for me, and this actually ties into what we were just chatting about, was I read Tim Ferriss's Four Hour Workweek book a long time ago, and there was one piece in there about doing the opposite of what everyone else is doing and you'll find your way.
[00:42:19.000] – Zack
And I did that for nutrition one day, and I decided to just stop eating for a couple of days and fast. And I uncovered all of my emotional eating in that moment. So the number three thing for me is like eating in a way that's nourishing your body, not emotional eating, figuring out what your patterns are, why you eat, what you eat, and to Jeremy's point, right, like listening to your body and understanding that message. So for me, it was fasting unlocked a lot of that stuff. So moving my body, mindfulness and eating the right things to nourish your body.
[00:42:56.050] – Allan
Thank you, Zack. Jeremy, I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?
[00:43:06.490] – Jeremy
I'm going to Echo Zach said just on the mindfulness thing. As I said, I just feel that any big answer, any big question I'm asking myself, it's in here somewhere and I just have to get out of my own way and listen to it. So meditation, mindfulness, however you can approach it, it's only going to help you. I also think that curiosity is just a huge tool to hang on in your toolbox because when you do find that you are emotionally eating or you're angry about something or you're just frustrated or whatever is going on, if you can again get into that moment and just get curious, why do I feel this way? Why am I opening this bag of Oreos? Why am I doing this thing? So often when I ask myself those questions while I'm doing the thing that I'm upset about or that I know I shouldn't be doing, I find that I no longer want to do that thing or that feeling dissipates because I can just shine this big bright light on it and make it really small and it goes away. So curiosity is huge. And then just kind of in terms of the bio hacking world, I can't get enough of the cold.
[00:44:04.230] – Jeremy
I wear shorts year round. My family teases me because I'll walk my kids to the bus stop in shorts and they're like, why are you wearing shorts? I feel at home in the cold. I always have. Even before I knew that cold exposure was a thing. I live next to a gigantic, beautiful Lake and as much as I can, I go and just sit in it for at least two minutes and just get cold because I just feel like it's this connection with nature, it's a reset. My whole body just reacts to it in a way that, again, makes me very present. When you're trying to stay alive for two minutes in twelve degree water, there's nothing quite like it. So to me, it's just all of that just kind of comes back to finding a way to just be in the moment and really know why you're doing what you're doing so that you can make the right choice to do the next right thing.
[00:44:50.260] – Allan
Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'm going to go for the heat shock proteins. You can go for the cold.
[00:44:54.740] – Jeremy
All right. I've heard of hot yoga and I don't ever want to be anywhere near it. No, I can't do the heat.
[00:45:02.410] – Zack
I'll flip flop in between them. I love my cryo-chamber, but I also love the sauna.
[00:45:07.450] – Allan
Awesome. So guys, if someone wanted to learn more about you, learn more about your podcast, The Fit Mess, where would you like for me to send them?
[00:45:16.990] – Zack
We've got a website, thefitmess.com, all of our shows, all of our information is right there. We're also on social media all over the place as fitmess guys. And we are on every place you could download a podcast from. We're there.
[00:45:34.380] – Allan
Okay. Well, I'm going to put the link in the show notes. You can go to 40PlusFitnessPodcast.com/530. And I'll be sure to have those links there. Jeremy, Zack, thank you so much for being a part of 40+ Fitness.
[00:45:47.950] – Jeremy
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
[00:45:49.580] – Zack
Yeah. Thank you.
[00:45:57.650] – Allan
Welcome back, Ras.
[00:45:59.180] – Rachel
Hey, Allan. What a fun conversation with Jeremy and Zack. They both have really good stories to share. It was interesting to hear how they got to where they are today.
[00:46:08.160] – Allan
Yeah. There's a lot to unwrap. Someone does something like this and in a few weeks I'm going to be a little while. I have another guest. I'm reading her book now and she lost over 150 lbs. You get these individuals that have this exceptional weight loss and you want to think they're superheroes, they're often famous people or they become famous. And so we like to kind of put this hero moniker on them. And the reality is Zack and Jeremy are just normal guys with normal jobs, but they did something exceptional for themselves. And there was a trigger for each of them that kind of made that happen. And from that, I think one of the key takeaways is that they didn't just decide one day they're going to do something, something happened or they really got serious. But it wasn't just a decision. I made the decision and it was eight years before I really got to doing something, anything important. And that's when I learned that I needed to be committed. I needed something in front of me, I needed a commitment, I needed to be serious about it. And I think if it's not happening for you, you've got to go back and do that check in and you've got to be brutally honest with yourself.
[00:47:36.170] – Allan
Are you really in it? Are you really trying? Because it may seem like you're trying when I tried this diet, did you and I don't mean that in a bad way, but really self exploration, it's like well, yeah, it was good Monday through Friday and then the Saturday and Sunday while I was off plan. Okay. Well, then you weren't on.
[00:48:03.610] – Rachel
Well, I think that people often expect overnight success or if not overnight, then a week of changing your diet and seeing success or a week of exercise and seeing some success. But it's a multifaceted thing, and it requires more than just a week to kind of test the waters with something new or a change that you've tried to implement.
[00:48:27.830] – Allan
And it's this consistency thing, and it's a consistency of being outside your comfort zone. So you can look at Jeremy. Okay, what does Jeremy decide he needs to do? Because he's talking to a physical therapist, and it's like, okay, you need to use your legs or you're going to lose them. It's like, okay, well, I'm going to buy a bike on Craigslist and get on that bike and ride it to work.
[00:48:55.480] – Rachel
Be the weird guy that rides his bike to work.
[00:48:59.420] – Allan
Exactly. Be the weird guy. Okay. I'm the weird guy who goes out and doesn't drink beer or alcohol right now. Okay. If I go out, I'm not drinking. And everybody's starting to accept it. That don't even bother. He's not going to because he has a commitment, he has a goal. He's got something in front of him that he's charging toward, and that's outside your comfort zone. It'd be so easy for me to sit there and say, everybody's having beer. I'll have a beer, too. Everybody's having a drink. I'll have a drink, too. But what I know is that that step off of the path for me is not just a step off. It's not just a little detour that I'd be taking. It would be a complete derailment of what I've accomplished. And it would take me a good, long time to mentally fix myself and get back on that trail. You have to be uncomfortable. There's no comfortable way to change.
[00:50:05.810] – Rachel
Well, committed. Committed is a key word here, too, Jeremy, like you had said, or he had said that he had a knee issue just like his parents. And he was on track to get in that same position and be a little bit worse off in the future. And once he committed to riding his bike to work, other things fell into place as well. And he had a friend that helped describe what a possible diet he could try the keto diet, and he found some success with that. And it kind of snowballs into a good area once you get rolling on it, as long as you stay committed to it.
[00:50:43.330] – Allan
Yeah, it will. But it doesn't start snowballing the first day, if you can imagine. Okay, we're not talking about just riding your bike down a park path. We're talking about literally he decides he's going to get on a bicycle and he's going to ride on the bike Lane in a city with traffic and everything else going. And he's quite literally maybe just probably was because he said he was terrified, which I would probably be, too. I'm not going to die of a heart attack. I'm going to die of a car hitting me.
[00:51:20.870] – Rachel
[00:51:22.130] – Allan
But he had to put himself uncomfortable. And he put some safety things in there because he knew, okay, riding 9 miles the first day might not be something he could actually accomplish. It turned out it was. But he was not just dumb and saying, okay, I'm going to do 9 miles the first day. He said, okay, I'm going to start and I'm going to figure out if I can ride my bike to work. And I will ride my bike to work. And yes, I'll be weird, I'll be uncomfortable, I'll be outside of the norm. I will do all those things that are outside my comfort zone. And he did that. And he had a friend, Zack, that had done Keto to lose a lot of weight. And so he said, okay, tell me about this. And I tell people about things all the time. Every week you're on here and we're having this conversation or these conversations about health, about taking care of yourself and giving you actionable items every single week. I asked the question at the end of an episode. Tell me your tricks. Tell me your tactics. Tell me your strategies. Can you imagine hundreds of episodes now that I've asked that question?
[00:52:31.080] – Allan
How many tactics and strategies have been mentioned on this podcast? Yours is there. The ones that will work for you are in those podcasts. They're out there. Now, the question then is, are you going to do it? People know I run the gym. I run the gym. Hey, Allan. Gym is open, right? You moved. Yeah. That's awesome. I'll be by there on Monday to join. Okay. Hey, Allan, I hear you're training for this tough Mudder. You've lost some weight. You're looking great. You're really doing this. I'm aghast. So tell me what you do to lose weight. And I tell them. End of conversation. Crickets. Not even crickets. It's quieter than crickets. I think we do have crickets here, I think. But it's quieter than crickets. I'm they're not going to do it. They don't do it. They don't want to do it. It's not the magic pill. It's not the easy button. It seems impossible. How can someone not eat cake?
[00:53:40.650] – Rachel
I've been listening to your podcast since you started, and it was very early on that you introduced the idea of Keto. And I listened to those podcasts for a long time, and I thought, Keto is another fad diet, which it is. And I just didn't see the sense. I didn't see the logic, and I just sat on it for a while. But when I did try it, it agreed with me. I mean, not right away. I certainly had the Keto flu like a lot of people do. But over time, it really does agree with me. That particular way of eating does agree with me. But it did take me a while to come to terms with it and at least the parts of it that I can easily agree with. And then a lot of people would no sugar because I really believe sugar is not good for you. We've talked about that. And no refined grains, no white flour, no white rice, no white pasta and any such thing. There's just no nutrients in it. And over time it works with me and I'm very committed because I feel good when I eat well and healthy foods, whole foods, real foods, and it works for me.
[00:54:55.200] – Rachel
And other people might find similar success with the vegan diet or vegetarian diet or any other diet that has the name that's out there. But the point is that you have to try something and you have to give it a chance. Changing your diet for a week is not going to yield any sort of livable, useful results. You need to try something for a long time to be committed to it for some time.
[00:55:20.190] – Allan
Well, before we got on here, you used a word and I think it's a really important word for us to put out there. And the word is gap. There are gaps, if you will, in this path. It's not a straight line. There's gaps. There's bits that aren't there that you have to fill in those gaps and you have to make it happen. You have to do the work to get there. The very first gap is the start. You've got to get momentum and you get momentum by actually starting. If you've ever tried to push a stalled car when you first start pushing, it's heavy, even if you're going slightly downhill, it's still heavy to get the car going. Once you get going, you get some momentum. Okay, same way with anything, that one thing that you're going to do. Just pick one thing. For Jeremy, it was riding his bike. For me, it was eating whole food. It was literally okay if it didn't walk this Earth or grow in the ground, if it was not alive at some point and I can't recognize it as being something alive and I mean really alive, there was not any of this.
[00:56:33.770] – Allan
Oh, well, these were oats. So I eat oatmeal. No, not even close. If it did not resemble something that was alive, meaning I could not pick it out of the ground and it be what it was, I didn't eat it. Okay. That strenuous. That's the paleo I did. And as a result of eating that way and trying to stay satiated, I went into ketosis. Okay, then there's the gap. When it starts getting hard, when things Plateau that first weekend where you say, okay, I'm not going to drink alcohol. That's going to be one of my main things. And I'm going to eat whole foods. And those are my two those are my two biggies the two rules. And then you get to the weekend and it's like, oh, we'll come over to my house, we've got the ball game coming on and they've got all the food and all the stuff set out and you're kind of like, okay, and they got the beers and all, have yourself a beer. And before you know it, you're digging into the cheese and chips and all that, and you're drinking the beer and it's like, oh, I'm over here making these hamburger and hot dogs.
[00:57:43.930] – Allan
You want one? And yeah, you end up with one of each or both or more. But you see, it's the gaps. There's those things that you've got to get past. And then the snowball starts to happen. It's like, oh, I have more energy, I feel better. I've lost 15 lbs. Now, my knees don't actually hurt when I get out of bed in the morning. So I could actually go for a walk. And you go for that walk and you're like, oh, that felt pretty good to go for that walk before I got ready for work. Kind of woke me up, got me going. I could listen to Allan's podcast, maybe not the whole thing in one walk yet, but you'll get there because we go a little longer now. But the whole point being is going to have these gaps. You can have these things that happen. And that's what for the first eight years of my journey was the problem. Was I had made the decision I wanted to do something and then I would start and I would either not get momentum or I would. And then something would trip me up, something would come in between me and what was going on.
[00:58:54.380] – Allan
There would be a lack of success, there would be an event and that event would completely throw me off. And if you've ever sat down and said, okay, well, so far I've lost 20 lbs and that's awesome. And then you go do something silly over a weekend and you step on the scale and it's 6 lbs more.
[00:59:17.150] – Allan
It's easy to just quit.
[00:59:19.980] – Allan
It's easy to walk away. So you've got to have that commitment. And then above all, you just have to be open and honest with yourself, who you are, what you're doing, and you show up. You don't say, I'm going to get that gym membership on Monday, it's Tuesday. You're listening to this. Maybe on a Tuesday, I'll get the gym membership on Monday. Well, guess what I'm going to tell you right now. You probably won't. I mean, you might do it now to prove me wrong, but no, you had no intention. You had no real intention because you had no commitment. And that's a hard thing to hear and it's actually a hard thing to say to people. But when someone tells me they're going to meet me at the gym on a certain day, unless they've paid me the money to be there and show up, they're not going to be there. 99% of the time someone tells me they're going to do something at the gym on a certain day if they haven't already paid the money to do it, they won't be there.
[01:00:32.990] – Rachel
Yeah. It's about making that decision to make a change and then committing to it.
[01:00:38.340] – Allan
Committing to it and then doing it. Those are gaps. There's a decision gap. It's not like pushing a button and it's instant gratification. There's a gap and it's the doing. So, yes, you can walk in a gym and you can give that gym you can sign a paperwork to sign up for that gym for a year, and you can give them the $10 and you can go in there and they'll show you all the stuff. And then tomorrow maybe you wake up bright and early and you put on your workout gear and you get down there. Where are you three weeks later? Are you still there? Are you still showing up? You're still doing your thing? Because if you do, then you're going to start looking at other things. The riding the bike leads to wanting to eat better. And then wanting to eat better means you're doing the research and you're following the path that we've helped you set forward. And again, as you said, Rachel, it's not just choosing a path I took or that you took or that Zack and Jeremy took. That's our path. It worked very well for us. It may or may not work out for you.
[01:01:47.320] – Allan
But here's the key. Vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, carnivore, keto, all of it. One thing in common, low if none processed foods, you cannot. I have yet and you guys can help me. There's a lot of you out there. Find me someone who got fat eating whole food. No, seriously, this shouldn't be that hard, right? If you eat meat, fish and vegetables and fruit and that's all you eat, did you get heavy doing that? The answer is no. I mean, I'm just telling you right now, you're not going to find that person. And the reason all their diets are great is because that's what they're made up of. And the reason they think every other diet is terrible, because they think every other diet, they're eating the terrible foods. So vegan thinks all we keto people eat is bacon. And unfortunately, we sell that because you get to eat bacon, but you don't live on it at all.
[01:03:06.100] – Rachel
[01:03:06.910] – Allan
Bacon can be a part. I don't eat much bacon at all. I don't need it anymore. I eat whole food. I eat non processed food. In fact, the day I went grocery shopping, I bought four chicken thighs, a salad, premade salad and some broccoli. That's my dinner. And so every bit of it was something that I could have picked or killed. It was alive. And I know it was alive because it's in the form it was in when it was not a lot anymore. After it's picked, the processing on the chicken was to cut the thigh off. That was it. The processing for the plants. They washed and cleaned it a little bit and chopped it up for the salad. And the broccoli is a whole big sprout thing of broccoli. So slice it in the bucket, wrap in plastic and give a Talon charging $2.40 because broccoli is expensive here. I paid less for the chicken. But you get the idea is that every one of these diets, they work because they're whole food. That's it. Now to do that is challenging because what do I have to do to walk into a grocery store to get to the places where I needed these things?
[01:04:33.510] – Speaker 1
I had to walk by the chips, I had to walk by the dips. I had to walk by the cookies. I had to walk by the sodas. I had to walk by. You get the idea? All the breaded meats that are in the freezer section, all the processed meats that are in the freezer section. And I shop hungry, which you're not supposed to do, but still hungry. What does hungry mean? Hungry means I bought four instead of two. That's what it means. And I could have bought two chicken because they were all together. I mean, individuals. So I literally could have just said, okay, well, tonight for dinner I'll buy three or buy two. But I was like, no, I'm going to want two of these and I'm going to eat two of these and I'm going to enjoy the heck out of them. Baked chicken thigh. I'll season it with a little something, but basically that. And then I'll have a salad. I'll probably put some beets on it and some cucumber and tomato and then make a vinaigrette and boom, and then I'll Cook the broccoli and I may have a little bit of it, but most of that when I bought it for my wife because when I say 240, literally, that's enough for one and a half meals.
[01:05:39.270] – Allan
One and a half thing of broccoli. So it's not a lot of broccoli. It is quite expensive when you consider that broccoli, but it is where we are. So a little bit getting it here and I didn't buy the cauliflower because it was even more expensive. But that's what I eat. That's leafy Greens, cruciferous, vegetables and meat.
[01:06:01.650] – Rachel
That sounds delicious.
[01:06:02.790] – Allan
Every meal, all my meals, I have some nuts and seeds. I eat occasionally I will eat cream cheese or sour cream occasionally. I may put a little feta on my salad tonight. So a little bit of cheese here and there, but not a lot. But that's it. And that serves me very well. Now, of course, I didn't. I don't always because I have my on season and off season. But if it's not happening, you got to go deep and you got to be honest with yourself. And I'm pretty certain you're going to find the answer is no, you're actually not committed. You're not doing the things that you should be doing and you know it. Don't lie to yourself. Don't lie to anybody else if it's not happening. You're not flawed, physically or otherwise. You just haven't made the commitment yet. You're not emotionally where you need to be to make this happen. And that's okay. Except that you're not there. That's cool. You're learning things. These are tools. Build your tool chest. But don't pretend you're doing the right things and be disappointed with the results. If you're not. 80 20 is not Monday through Friday.
[01:07:23.050] – Allan
That's not the math. So let's be honest with ourselves. Let's make the right decisions. And we've gone long on this, but quite literally, this is going to be something we're showing episode 530. Yeah. It's nothing new in the sun, really. People going to ask, how do you do 530 episodes? It's like just finding one more person to listen that gets it and changes today. This is, you know, you're right. I haven't really gotten uncomfortable yet. I really haven't gotten out of my comfort zone and said, this is important. And it's not that you can't ever have a piece of cake. You can't ever have a piece of candy or whatever it is, whatever your thing is or can't ever have another beer. It's not what we're saying because you can you can manage that back in at some level, either as a sometimes thing or like I do a cycle in and out kind of thing. But you got to figure out what works for you first. But if you don't do the big thing to get where you want to be, then there's no off ramp you never got on. You might not even be driving down the frontage road.
[01:08:42.440] – Rachel
Yeah, well, like Jeremy, he had a scared straight situation. He was told that he's going to have problems in the future if he doesn't make a change. And Zack had a tough childhood. He had a long ways to go with his health as well. And it's when you are made aware of a situation, you need to figure out how you're going to change it and commit to that change and bridging that gap between learning you need to make a change and committing to it and actually doing it. It's hard sometimes, but there's a lot of resources out there. There's a lot of people that can help. And even us on this podcast, reach out to Allan's website and ask a question if you need help or support. That's what we're here for.
[01:09:26.620] – Allan
Yes, absolutely. That's the big thing. Just reach out, get this thing started. Because he had a scared straight moment. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people their first heart attack is not our last heart attack because they're not alive to have another one. People are dying at ages of 40 and 30 with heart attacks. It's their only heart attack. It's the last one. It's the only one, and it's the one that ends their lives. And so the whole point being is not that that's your fate, but just recognize that some people wake up calls are also their good night calls. So don't let that be the case. We know that your health is where it is. If you want to change it you don't have to have that huge health scare. You know it's there. You know it's there. Have it mentally go through it. Get yourself together and make the change.
[01:10:23.340] – Rachel
[01:10:25.650] – Allan
All right. Well, Rachel, I'll talk to you next week.
[01:10:29.140] – Rachel
Great. Take care, Allan.
[01:10:30.510] – Rachel
You too. Bye.
[01:10:31.550] – Rachel
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