Falling in love forever with Barbara and Michael Grossman

Introduction

On episode 660 of the 40+ Fitness Podcast, we meet Barbara and Michael Grossman and discuss their book, Ageless Love: The Sexy Science of Falling in Love Forever.

Episode Notes

Transcript provided by CastMagic.io.

Coach Allan [00:01:10]:
Hey, Ras. How you doing?

Rachel [00:01:25]:
Good, Allan. How are you today?

Coach Allan [00:01:27]:
I'm doing alright. It's it's been a busy, busy month. Mhmm. Yeah. I did the, I did the workshop, and that that's gone very, very well. I'm really excited about the number of people that came through the workshop and the results, what we're doing. It's it's been really cool. And then, of course, I I opened up and and launched my my new training program, and that's going well.

Coach Allan [00:01:50]:
And so I'm just I'm just excited that, you know, I'm I'm done. But, you know, as a result, right now, I'm not taking any more clients for a while, and I'll Mhmm. Work into the end of the year and just get these folks the best results I possibly can. Sorry if you missed it, but we've been talking about it. Mhmm. But, yeah, it's it's it's good. It's all good. How are things up there?

Rachel [00:02:12]:
Good. Enjoying the last little bits of summer here. Mike and I took our kayaks out over the weekend. So we had a different kind of working out over the weekend. My arms are a little sore from paddling, but it was a fun fun outing.

Coach Allan [00:02:25]:
Use your back, not

Rachel [00:02:26]:
I know. Well and now I know. You know, it's just funny. Like, it's it's like getting your sea legs. We haven't had our kayaks out in so long. I forgot how to propel. I forgot how to turn.

Rachel [00:02:38]:
I forgot all the things that you do when you do something with consistency, and and this was our first outing. So I'm hoping we can get it out a couple more times before it gets too cold.

Coach Allan [00:02:48]:
Or you're just treading across the top of the ice.

Rachel [00:02:51]:
Yes. Exactly.

Coach Allan [00:02:54]:
Alright. Well, are you ready to talk about ageless love?

Rachel [00:02:57]:
Sure.

Coach Allan [00:02:59]:
After 20 years of leading marriage classes for thousands of couples, our guests have created the best technology to navigate the marriage journey. Doctor Barber received her PhD in a pastoral counseling from Claremont School of Theology. She is committed to teaching skills to move couples from emotional distance and power struggle to feeling understood, appreciated, and respected using wisdom from our western cultural tradition. Her passion is to promote personal development, which is the key to success in the marriage journey. Doctor Michael has been a practitioner and a teacher of meditation for over 1,000 people over 40 years. He has led attitudinal healing classes for over 20 years, teaching how to create love, let go of resentments and fears, and how to create an experience of connection to God. He is passionate about using romantic partnership as a vehicle to move us through higher stages of inner development. He works as an anti aging physician teaching health and longevity through balanced nutrition, hormones, exercise, meditation, and healthy relationships.

Coach Allan [00:04:04]:
With no further ado, here's doctor Barbara Grossman and doctor Michael Grossman. Doctors Grossman, welcome to 40 Plus Fitness.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:04:12]:
Nice to be here. Pleasure.

Coach Allan [00:04:15]:
So your book is called Age is Love, the sexy science of falling in love forever. Yes. And I have to say what was what was actually kind of bizarre as I went through the book, and I'm gonna dive into this a little bit later, was it's like, okay. Wait. You guys have been following me around my whole life because you you actually know how I developed as a human being in my relationships. You you laid them out in this book, and I'm like, who are these people and how they've been following me? How do they know these things? Because it was it was eerie. It was it was really eerie how close you guys were to how I reacted to things as I was getting more, I guess, more and more mature is the way I'd say it.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:01]:
Yeah. How old are you?

Coach Allan [00:05:04]:
I'm 58 now.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:06]:

58. Okay. Very nice. And and and how long have you been married?

Coach Allan [00:05:11]:
This this last time, 10 years.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:14]:
10 years. Very nice.

Coach Allan [00:05:16]:
And it it did start from a very different, frame of mind, a very different stage. And I and I think that's that's why it has lasting power and the others did not.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:28]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Coach Allan [00:05:30]:
We make it

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:05:31]:
when we're in our forties than when we're in our twenties.

Coach Allan [00:05:36]:
Yes. Yes. It it like I said, you laid it out. So we're gonna talk about it because I was like, I just thought it was fascinating. I'm like, okay. They've been they've been following me around because nobody knows this stuff. Alright. So, like I said, I I really enjoyed the book, and and you came at it from a very different perspective than than I was looking for.

Coach Allan [00:05:59]:
Okay. So when I came in, I was like, okay. It's a book about relationships. It's a book about love. And and I I fully expected, yes, we have to talk about communication because that's the cool core tool to make all this happen. But you used a reference to quantum physics and electrons in speaking about waves and particles as the way that we, even as humans, approach things. Could you could you kind of describe that and tell us how that works and what that means? Because as you started to say it, I wasn't sure. But by the time you got done explaining it, I'm like, absolutely.

Coach Allan [00:06:39]:
This is how it works. So

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:06:45]:
so electrons and photons behave in peculiar waves. We didn't realize that they're so different than, quote, particles. So from, looking at science from, Isaac Newton, we thought everything was little particles bouncing into each other. And and then when quantum physics, came around, all this weird stuff was going on where, what seemed to be a particle could behave like a wave depending depending upon whether someone was watching it or not, which is totally crazy. Like, oh my gosh. Is is light a wave or a particle? And and what scientists figured out, and it made no sense to them, was that it could be either depending upon who is watching it or is something watching it. If no one is watching it, it behaves like a wave. As soon as something consciously looks at it or observes it, it turns into a particle.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:07:48]:
It gets localized. Now that is like an extraordinary way of understanding the world we live in, which is not the way normally we think about it. We think about everything as separate from each other, and, like, I can interact with you and bounce into you. But what we're saying with the particle wave understanding is that a a photon or electron can behave like a particle or like a wave. So it could be a wave if it's just everywhere at any time, and then it can get localized if something looks at it and localize it. So what happens in our own personal life, if we feel like everything is good, that no one is judging us and watching us and so on, we feel unlimited. We feel so connected to everything, interrelated to everything. But as soon as We're relaxed.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:08:41]:
Our and we're relaxed. Right? Because we're open. As soon as our husband or wife says something specific that makes us feel like we're being observed and watched and judged and criticized, we push. We get localized, and we start feeling like, well, something is pushing on me, and I can't move anymore, and I'm being restricted. And we feel pressured, and we feel like we're restricted. We can control whether we feel constricted or not by our way of interacting with other people if we let it just go through us. Like, we become a window where everything just goes through us. Nothing gets stuck in here, which means we have to be in a state of forgiveness.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:09:30]:
We have to be in a state of gratitude. And when we're in that, nothing affects us. It just goes right through us, and we change our experience.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:09:40]:
And you're your best self. So the the image of a of a particle is constriction. It's defensiveness. It's reactiveness. It's it's not our best selves. And if you it's you can use the metaphor use it as a metaphor to to consciously be a wave even in the presence of criticism or in a, in a conflict. And, that's the the best, approach to having conversations with people we care about.

Coach Allan [00:10:08]:
Yeah. One of the one of my takeaways and, again, I'm I'm getting a little personal here. But, yeah, I was thinking about that with regards to my relationship with my wife now, and I was thinking, okay. There are times when I get frustrated. I think you had a story of frustration, and I was like, yes. Mine was slightly different because what what happens with me is that my wife will ask me to do something while I'm doing something else. And the way my brain works, I want to finish the one thing I'm doing before I go off and start trying to do something else. And the thing she's asked me to do doesn't have to be done right now.

Coach Allan [00:10:49]:
So I get frustrated. I I turn into a particle, and I realize at that point that I'm I'm angry that that she doesn't understand that I just I wanna get this done first. I wanna do that. I'll do that second because she in her head, just she wants it done, like, now. So she'll start doing it. Never and she'll say never mind. I'll just do it. And I'm like again, frustrated.

Coach Allan [00:11:14]:
So it is a conversation I haven't had with my wife. She's traveling, but I just finished reading your book. So when she gets back, I am going to open that up and say, hey. You know, some things I've been thinking about when you say this, I feel this.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:11:31]:
Yes.

Coach Allan [00:11:31]:
And this is why I feel this. And then maybe as she opens up, she'll communicate, okay. Next time I want you to do something, I'll recognize you're doing something already because I don't sit around watching a lot of Netflix. If if I'm sitting there doing something, I'm doing something. And so just let her know. It's like, if you come in, I'm doing something. You ask me. You want something.

Coach Allan [00:11:56]:
Unless it's like, please put out the house fire. If it can wait, then just recognize that that's what I'm gonna wanna do, is do it after I finish what I'm doing. And let me and let me.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:12:11]:
Good. So you didn't have an upset. You made a request, negotiated it, and it resolved the stuff.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:12:16]:
Well, he- Joshua Brodersen (zero

Coach Allan [00:12:17]:
fifty five:fifty six): Well, it will. I'm laying out my communication plan. Yeah. Okay. You're

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:12:23]:
not going to come from crankiness

Coach Allan [00:12:24]:
or control? Joshua Brodersen (zero fifty five:fifty six): No. I'm going to realize that that was me reacting and not, you know, thinking it, not doing it right, not opening up and accepting it the way it's supposed to be.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:12:38]:
So so we have, 2 thoughts for you. One is what we recommend in our book is always make appointments for these discussions.

Coach Allan [00:12:48]:
Yeah.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:12:48]:
Make an appointment when it's comfortable for each of you and say, hey, we would can can we sit and talk? I have some things to talk to you about. I need 5 or or 10 minutes. That's good time. So that and and she should do the same for you so that you make an appointment for discussion. Very important. Second thing would be, when you're listening to each other, we have a whole process that we teach couples where you listen without interrupting, which is really strange for couples. Okay? Listen without interrupting, and then when you respond, the other person responds without you interrupting. Now that doesn't necessarily lead to complete clear, what do we can do about this? How do we come? No.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:13:33]:
But it starts the sharing process. So you don't wanna get into an argument.

Coach Allan [00:13:38]:
Yeah.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:13:38]:
So this is how you avoid the arguments through this and and and we have a whole process where we teach our couples how to, avoid arguments. That's one of our online courses, as I have said.

Coach Allan [00:13:52]:
But you also you also brought this up in the book. And one of the things you said that I think was was really astute was that I'm having I'm having a series of feelings, and it's better for me to say when this happens, I feel this than it is for me to say you always do that, and it's always wrong.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:14:13]:
Very, very, very good. And the other thing that we have, we have a skill set where we teach the couples to say, ouch. So that's a whole other skill set. So when you have a little ouch, it's a little it's a skill set to say ouch at the beginning when you're not really that upset. And then your partner says, oh, what what is the why is why are you saying ouch? Well and then you have a chance to say, but you do this, and I'm feeling this and feeling that. And then the partner said, well, what can I do to make it better? And then you make a specific thing. If it doesn't be done right away, then please just ask once and and and give me, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 1 hour, whatever to finish what I'm doing, and then I'll complete that. And and if if it's a simple thing, that's it.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:15:07]:
If it's not simple, then you gotta make an appointment for a whole sharing session. So so it's very important to catch the ouchies early, because if you wait, it builds up. Yeah. And it's bigger, and then they get

Coach Allan [00:15:22]:
And it has. That that that's why it comes to mind is that it's happened several times. And every time, I get frustrated, and it's the same feelings, and it's it's never resolved.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:15:32]:
Right.

Coach Allan [00:15:33]:
You know, it's always, okay. I'll quit doing what I'm doing and go do this because, you know, you I feel, you know, again, I'm a particle. Alright. So now this is where the eerie part comes in is is you you took us through the psychospiritual states. There's 5 stages or states, and you walked kinda through those, you know, the innocence, the orphan, caretaker, warrior, and wise elder. And like I said, as I was reading through that, I'm like, you guys just wrote my biography, of every relationship I've ever had. Can you take us through that and describe what each of those is and and then what's necessary to kinda get to the next stage? Because there are there is a change in us that has to occur or we're not gonna be ready for that next stage. Wendy Van Wagner (zero twenty three:fifty four): Well,

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:16:23]:
in terms of relationships, what's important it's important to start at stage 3, which is where people want to belong. They want to they want to make lifelong love commitments. They want to attach. And, usually, if you if you marry young, you marry usually in that stage. And, but but and so it's all about creating a home, creating a family. It's very comfortable, and it's it's all about really attachment. But very soon, you know, because in our culture, women have babies, men go forward, and they become more dynamic in the world. They become, they become, warriors, and they're out in the world, you know, making a a good life for their family, and they have to be they have to develop their strategies, their tactics, their their, they have to connect with a skill base.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:17:14]:
They have a lot of things they have to do to be effective. And so you have a, you know, a a more individuated, lead in the family, usually the man. And the woman is home having babies. She's still about connection. So they're in a very, very different place than they were when they started, and and their values are somewhat different. How they see the world is different because their responsibilities are fundamentally different. And so they they need to understand that this is part of the evolution of their lives, and they have to appreciate their differences rather than fight over their differences. Eventually, women, you know, most women go back to work, and they become, they they become, you know, more independent as well.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:17:56]:
That's not an easy deal either because they've got 2 very, you know, powerful people who have confidence and self esteem and have a points of view, and they, and they battle it out. And that isn't really that isn't, you know, nice for the bond and the family life and and the emotional connection. So it, it's important to understand these stages so that we don't take them so personally, that we understand we have different points of view and that, and that we soften up a little bit and, appreciate that, you know, both usually in a good argument, both points of view have validity. And, you know, Ben, it's easier when you get to our age. You know, we're we've raised our children. We have grandchildren, and it's a very, very sweet time. But those are very, very tough stages. And if you don't understand them, it's very easy to come to to conclusions that are very harsh for the for the partnership and for the family life.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:18:51]:
And, you know, my purpose in talking about this is that couples understand that it's a you know, that your your relationship pulls you through these, these stages and helps you grow. Without this stimulus, you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't develop your heart. You wouldn't develop your mind. You wouldn't be forced to integrate the the mind and the heart. It's the it's the best program for self development that that, has ever been designed. You can't get better therapy than having a partner because your partner will tell you everything you you probably didn't wanna know, that is your project to work on yourself. And, we want we want people to know this so that they understand the the project, that it's it's about learning together, growing together. And we'd we'd like to see couples, you know, really use their relationship for the good of everyone in the family and not, you know, just and not separate and divorce without, you know, deep reflection.

Coach Allan [00:19:47]:
Yeah. So I that was it. I I got into my career, and I felt like I I kinda developed beyond. And I even though I encouraged her to do things, she was the caretaker. She was the you know, to at home. And, yeah, I we were in totally different stages of life, and we weren't communicating. And that's you know, that was the end. You know? We weren't mature enough.

Coach Allan [00:20:13]:
If we didn't go get help, it was what it was. Time didn't heal that, and it wouldn't have healed it. But So from

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:20:20]:
a relationship point of view, the woman will see her her man as, you know, arrogant and pushy, and the man will experience his wife as as boring and, you know, you know, a resistant. And, it's it's it's an unfair interpretation even though there's truth in it. But, you know, if you understand it's a stage, you understand that, really, it's important to be a caretaker. It's important to be out in the world. This is what you do for the for the family and that you can stretch and grow towards each other. So you understand, you know, how what's you know, what the big gap in between. And, eventually, women get, you know, get interested in their own development and they, progress. And so there's a really nice stage ahead.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:21:04]:
But getting through that stage Doctor.

Coach Allan [00:21:06]:
Andrew Roark If you're still together, yes.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:21:09]:
Doctor. Andrew Roark And so what I can add is that the development of the hot is something that men get later. So women develop their hot, having babies, naturally being a woman, you're into nurturing. But the ability to have the mind controlling the hot comes a little later for women. And that's what they learn in relationship as they grow and mature. For men, it usually goes the other way. They get into their mind really early, their into their career and to having their mind and their heart is just controlled by their mind. But then they have to when they are growing and developing, they have to learn to develop their heart.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:21:56]:
So what does that mean? That means women, it's important for a man to learn to share his feelings. It's important that he's connected to

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:22:02]:
his feelings, and it's important that his woman knows what his feelings are. And it's also important on the other side for a woman to control her anger. It's not nice, and anger isn't a primary feeling anyway. Secondary. What's underneath anger is hurt and fear. And, you know, most people don't know that. And so they you know, every feelings get dramatized, and that's a bad recipe for a relationship.

Coach Allan [00:22:28]:
I agree. Now another area I wanted to go into, and, if you have small children, you might not want them to hear this part, so hit pause and listen to something else if you got the kids around. But I did wanna talk about this because I think this is you know, I think we all we all kinda understand, yeah, the emotional side of all of this, the, you know, the mind and communication and obviously the heart. But we we we have well, that's where most of the relationship piece comes until we start getting older, and then it's sometimes it's the physical stuff. So it's the intimacy. It's, you know, like, maybe guys are struggling with, ED. Women get into menopause, and they start dealing with symptoms like vaginal dryness. And those can both affect the intimacy from a physical perspective that we're having.

Coach Allan [00:23:22]:
So I'd like to talk a little bit about your perspectives on managing those because they're they're very sensitive topics to individuals when they're going through it. But what recommendations would you have for someone?

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:23:34]:
Well, there are 2 different basic issues we have to look at. So as a as a physician who who deals with these things a lot, there are 2 different categories. 1 is the emotional category, and the other is the physiological category. So so the physiological category is very different from men and women. For women, it's pretty quick when they go into menopause, Anywhere from the age of 45 to 50 something, women are gonna go through menopause where they are not menstruating like they used to, get hot flashes, vaginal dryness, mood swings, not sleeping well, feeling tired, losing libido, and it's not psychological. It's physiological. That can have a great effect on the relationship when that when a woman goes through that, and the way to treat that is on the physiological level. So they come to see me, I put them on bio identical hormones, natural hormone replacement.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:24:36]:
So chapter 2 in the book, not chapter 2, but section 2 is all about the body. And we talk about what should we do for women. You take bio identical hormones, you live longer and healthier than if you do nothing. You don't wanna use the synthetic hormones. And there's all kinds of variations of things to do, but it's dramatic. It it allows women to live a a vital, energetic, enthusiastic life, sexually, mentally, emotionally, creatively, their whole life. So Barbara and I, we're 473. We do ballroom dancing.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:25:12]:
We compete around the country. It's real intense, and we love it. But we couldn't do it without these natural, wild, dark hormones. Men, it's a little different. When men go into their fifties, they they lose a lot of their hormones, but it's just slow. Every 10 years, it goes down and down and down. By the time they're 60 or 70, it's like, woah, it's gone. And they feel like an old man.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:25:37]:
And they lose their energy. They lose their enthusiasm. They lose libido. They don't have any muscle stamina or endurance. It's all reversible, and it's dramatic. But the downside is very slow. So you feel less good when you're 40, less good when you're 50, less good when you're 60, but there's nothing dramatic. It's slow.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:26:00]:
But it's dramatic when we replace the male hormone, testosterone with some other things to support them, and it's dramatic. It just changes their life. So that's the physiological thing. Erection functioning for men, 50% of men when they're 50 have that as a problem. 70% of men when they're 70, and it just keeps going up. It's reversible. The physiological problem for men is reversible. There are many different causes for it.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:26:30]:
I do a lot of vibrational acoustic wave therapy, gains wave. I do a lot of injection stem cells and platelets and exosomes, and it's dramatic. It works only 85 to 90% of the time. No side effects, and it's great. Men love it. It changes their ability to have that intimate relationship that beats so much. In in a marriage, you live longer and healthier if you have sex twice a more a week than if you have it twice a month. So it's very important.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:27:02]:
It's not just feel good. It's important to create that all those emotional changes in your hormones that affect your physiology. It really makes you live longer and healthier. So that's for men, and women have issues that can occur as they get older, and and we can do the same kinds of treatment that we do for men on women, and it's dramatically helpful for them. Emotional issues, then you gotta work with doctor Barber to see what's going on emotionally. You have to have the the feeling of of love and intimacy, emotional intimacy with your partner. And and I would say 20 to 30% of the time, it's emotional. 70 to 80% of the time, it's physiological.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:27:48]:
So that's the big picture.

Coach Allan [00:27:50]:
Okay. Now you didn't use these words in the book, but this was just as I was reading through it, this was what, what kinda got into my head. It was about how, I think, spiritually, a lot of times, we we feel like victims. And and I hear it I hear it a lot a lot, reading different things and listening to different things. Is it there's just there just seems to be this new culture of victimhood that's out there. And I think if we feel like we're a victim, it's it's really hard to solve any problems. And so I you know, like I said, the words I wrote down as I was reading was abandoned victimhood. But it was really as I was going through the spiritual section of the book and just how we relate to our situation in the world.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:28:45]:
I I I I love your your analysis and perspective. So in the 3rd section of book on, spirituality, we talk about what is required of every human being to live a fulfilling life is you have to forgive everybody who's ever hurt you. That's a big thing to

Coach Allan [00:29:10]:
do. Including yourself. Well,

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:29:14]:
yeah. Yeah. That's true. And and to go into the forgiveness thing, we have an exercise in our book which can help people to take one example of it to kind of go through it. It's very fulfilling. We also have, a thing where you, a process with where you have your spouse work with you to help you to heal those wounds from the past. And, the big picture that people have to see with forgiveness is that, you have to see that if you think that you're gonna hurt someone else by not forgiving them, and I'll show them, and I'll get them back, and whatever, you have to see the big picture. That always hurts you more than it hurts them.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:30:04]:
Yeah. And and it hurts you psychologically, it hurts you physiologically. Your health and longevity are tied into forgiveness. That's part of living wrong. To to feel emotions of compassion is so critical for your own longevity. You wanna say something? Yeah.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:30:24]:
Can I add that, most of us don't know the wounds that we harbor until we're married and we're, intimate with our partner emotionally, physically, and try to live a family life together? We recreate family life, and we we experience. We we, we experience the wounds of our childhood. And, it often looks like our partner is the bad person, but we're really so there's a there's a way in which the intimacy of our partnership, brings to the surface all of the wounds of our childhood. It's the most remarkable psychotherapy there is because you you get in touch with everything that is just not in that isn't resolved and centered and squared with you. All of your distortions of reality, come up for, review. And you have a chance to, you know, realize, you know, from an adult point of view what was going on and to appreciate, your parents, even and and forgive them for those those times that were very difficult. And so, you know, we believe that partnership is part of the journey of, you know, human life to, you know, full expression and satisfaction, creativity.

Coach Allan [00:31:35]:
Yeah. And I like the idea of you bringing your partner into this because that that shared experience, it it's just gonna deepen the relationship and the intimacy and the openness that you have with them because you'll probably be sharing things that you haven't shared with anybody else.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:31:54]:
Correct. Absolutely right. It's so critical. So for for Barbara and I, my sensitivities as a child was that my mother would criticize everybody, including me. And she was the big boss general, and and she was the only one allowed to have feelings. So when something happens that make me feel criticized, I fall apart. I'm strong at just so many ways, but Barbara has learned that I am very sensitive to criticism. And she may say or do something that hits that, and then I I can say, oh, gee.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:32:31]:
That really hurts. She says, oh, I'm so sorry to to do that. That is something my mother would never do. Right? But Barbara, so apologize for just a little tone of voice or a little something. You know? And then that that creates the love where she heals my past hurts. And Barbara's hurts are her natural father left and never came back when she was 2. Abandonment drives her crazy. If she thinks I might run off or not come home on time or something happens and I'm not there, then she falls on.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:33:05]:
And instead of me feeling like she's criticizing me and and trying to upset me, I recognize, oh, that's her sensitivity. Okay. I'm so sorry I forgot to call you. Oh, and then she then she could feel better about it. So each of us can heal each other, and that is critical. And then you go on and on where you do ultimately have to forgive everybody for everything that ever happened to you. And then God's love comes into your experience, and you feel open to everything around you, and your heart expands. And you move through those layers that you talked about, the growing layers, after the warrior phase, you get into the into the wise elder phase, and there's other phases above there.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:33:50]:
But it all requires you gotta go through all this stuff. It's quite a spiritual process. That relationship pushes you through. Doctor.

Coach Allan [00:33:59]:
Whitfield (zero forty five:fifty four): Well, I'm not going to call myself a wise elder yet, but I'm working on it. Okay? Doctor. Whitfield (zero forty five:fifty

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:34:05]:
four): It's a process, Josh. But what happens is your one of your the injuries of one of your childhoods intertwines with the other one. So if if I feel, you know, abandoned and not important to Michael and I start criticizing him, we've reactivated both of our histories in the same moment.

Coach Allan [00:34:25]:
Yeah. And

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:34:25]:
so it takes, you know, it takes, a lot of reflection and and forgiveness to unwrap that and and lay it out and and resolve it. And if you don't do that because you're not just hurt from this moment, you're hurt from your whole history, It gets so intense for some couples. I think that accounts for, a lot of the divorces we see because, fundamentally, our our partnership is a psychological relationship.

Coach Allan [00:34:52]:
Yes. Okay. So doctor Barbara, I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest, and happiest you can be. What are three strategies or tactics to get and stay well?

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:35:04]:
Well, I think you need to, you need to have a form of exercise. You need to eat healthy. You need to know your body, your your personal physiology, and eat well for your for the kind of body you have. You need to, stay connected. That means, you know, a soulful, deep conversation on a regular basis and regular sex.

Coach Allan [00:35:26]:
Alright. So, now doctor Michael, same for you. I define wellness as being the healthiest, fittest, and happiest you can be. What are 3 strategies or tactics to get and stay well?

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:35:39]:
So what I would add to doctor Barber is that, one, I would, add that the the way to stay emotionally connected to your partner is to work at the skills you need to foster that. And you're gonna find those skills in the courses that we we teach online, in our books. You need to make that an important part of your life that you've gotta say, yes. This is just as important as eating. The most important factor in longevity after the age of 50 is the quality of personal relationships. You need to work on that. You're not born having the skills for personal relationships. You've gotta learn them.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:36:25]:
We've had many mentors, and we love mentoring other people. Online courses that aren't video or, in person, Zoom courses. Second thing is meditation is a critical factor in one of the things you need to do to have good longevity and to be healthy. You have to calm down the stress response, which is so overwhelming in my life. And I teach med meditation classes twice a week online, and and then they can go to doctor michaelmeditation.com. There's no cost. So important. The third thing that is is real critical is to have a doctor who's gonna look at your overall well-being.

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:37:14]:
Unfortunately, most doctors are government doctors, and they wanna get you in and out 5 minutes and give you a pill and leave them alone. Okay? Because they have a lot of other patients to see. You need a doctor like myself who's gonna look at your overall well-being, look at all the different tests on your are you prediabetic? Are you clogging your arteries? Are are are you, having issues with inflammation, arthritis? And and they have to look at the big picture, and and this is gonna be your guide. Everyone needs to have a a doctor guide who's into antiaging medicine to see the big picture. Those would be the things I would suggest.

Coach Allan [00:37:55]:
Thank you. So doctors, if someone wanted to learn more about you, learn more about your book, Age of Love, and all the wonderful things that you're doing, where would you like for me to send them?

Dr. Michael Grossman [00:38:05]:
They should go to falling in love forever.com. Fallinginloveforever.com. They can also go to ocwellness.com. So the medical side is the OC Wellness, and the relationship side is the formula forever.

Coach Allan [00:38:25]:
Thank you. So doctor Barber, doctor Michael, thank you so much for being part of 40 Plus Fitness.

Dr. Barbara Grossman [00:38:30]:
It's a pleasure. You've been fun to be with.

Coach Allan [00:38:33]:
Welcome back, Raz.

Rachel [00:38:35]:
Allan, that was a really interesting discussion with the doctors, Grossman. How fun. They're both doctors.

Coach Allan [00:38:41]:
Yeah. I wanted well, one's a PhD, one's an MD. But, I wanted I wanted to get them on because, you know, one of the things we don't think about that that does affect our our health and our fitness and and Mhmm. Our longevity and everything is the relationships in our life. And one of the most important of those would would be, you know, your partner, your spouse. And too often, we let those things get bad Mhmm. And lack the skills to make them good again. And so this was this I think this was a good opportunity for someone to say, okay, I'm a I'm a grown person.

Coach Allan [00:39:18]:
I'm gonna figure this stuff out. And, you know, so I I was glad to be able to kinda go through it. When they started talking about quantum entanglements and all that other stuff at the beginning of the book, I was about to say, okay, this might not be the book for me. But then they got to the practical stuff and and and everything. And at that point, you're like, okay, so now I understand what what they were going after and understanding where we are. And so now you have some tools to kinda look at who you are and where you are and understand each other better. But you and I were talking before we came on. Just one base key of this whole thing is communication.

Rachel [00:39:59]:
100%. I mean, communication is the absolute foundation of everything. And it it's funny as you look back at your lives Mike and I actually have been married for almost 30 years. Next year will be our 30th anniversary. And and as I look back, now that we're empty nesters, I'm a different person than I am today than I was when we got married almost 30 years ago. I mean, 30 years is a lot of years. And I've changed, but he's kind of

Coach Allan [00:40:27]:
like, that's amazing.

Rachel [00:40:28]:
You know? Well, to be honest, he puts up with lots. Me too. But that's a good example and it goes both ways. But there have been times where we have communicated very well and there's times where we've communicated very poorly. But, but, yeah, I mean, so much has changed. You have to go back and forth. You have to share with one another. And if it doesn't just happen naturally, I liked the doctor's idea about setting meetings and having deliberate discussions.

Rachel [00:41:00]:
How are things going in your life? You know, what are you thinking nowadays? And, you know, if you can't do it again naturally, I mean, take a look at what major things are happening in your life today. For example, in my life, we are now empty dusters. We have no kids in our lives, which means I don't have that nurturing, caretaking focus that I had before. And so what am I gonna do? What am I gonna what does Mike think I need to do? You know? It's a good time to sit down and hash what we wanna how we wanna live our lives together now that we don't have kids in the house. It's a big change.

Coach Allan [00:41:38]:
Yeah. Now now based on their the 5 states that they talked about, this would this would somewhat indicate that you're about to go into your warrior stage where you start building you start building your own your own thing. You know? You're doing your own things. And as a result, a lot of times when we get into that phase, particularly guys, we we shut down and focus solely on that. Mhmm. But I would dare argue that you you you still have to be a caretaker at some level.

Rachel [00:42:04]:
Oh, yeah.

Coach Allan [00:42:05]:
Because you're taking care of Mike. You've got your parents and things like that. Our generation, the x generation, is, is kind of interesting because we're living long enough, and our parents are living long enough that we're kinda caught in that middle ground of as soon as we finish raising our kids, we're moving over into taking care of our parents. And and at the same time, maybe there's an overlap for you. Sure. I didn't have that overlap because my kids were all well, our kids were all born earlier, but we're at that stage now where, yeah, we're we're shifting over and having to think about our parents and their care. And, so, yeah, there's there's always gonna be a little bit of maybe each of these in here at some level. Mhmm.

Coach Allan [00:42:44]:
But, yeah, we get to a point, and we if we don't understand where we're going, we can't communicate to our partner where we where we are or where we're gonna be. So that's very odd.

Rachel [00:42:54]:
Yeah. Even that's a good discussion to have. Quite honestly, I'm in that same boat where, you know, I've spent my life with focused on the kids. What do they need? Where do where do they need to go? Where do I need to drive them? Where do we go to eat for dinner based on the kids? And now if you ask me, where do I wanna go for dinner? I will not know because I I don't know what I want anymore. So that's a discussion that Mike and I have had. You know, I don't know where I'm going in my very immediate future or what I want to do, but I'm working on discovering those things. But because we're communicating that, you know, Mike and you know, we can just check-in with each other and and see what we want. So it's it's a change, but it's, again, communication, discussing these things Yeah.

Rachel [00:43:42]:
Is the key.

Coach Allan [00:43:44]:
It is. It is. Alright. Well, that's all I really had prepped for today. So talk to you next week.

Rachel [00:43:51]:
Great. Take care, Allan.

Coach Allan [00:43:52]:
You too. Bye.

Rachel [00:43:53]:
Thank you. Bye bye.

Music by Dave Gerhart

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